to people thinking about organising protests at APEC : Melbourne Indymedia

An open letter from Mutiny* to people thinking about organising protests at APEC
May 2007

Some people have said that they don't want APEC to be another G20. Neither do we. We don't want to see 'protest organisers' publicly denouncing other protesters. We don't want to see groups responding to a climate of police aggression by distancing themselves from those being targeted. We don't want to see groups so busy scrambling for crumbs of media 'legitimacy' that they willingly play into media hysteria about 'violence' and false and dangerous dichotomies between 'good' and 'bad' protesters. --- We believe that in this climate it would be all too easy for any of us to find ourselves classed as 'bad protesters'. --- So we're concerned to hear that the Sydney Stop Bush Coalition has decided to produce posters saying 'join the peaceful protest.'

This text itself is minor, but it suggests worrying tendencies
(which are not confined to a particular group.) To insist on
'peaceful protest' seems to be either naïve or dangerously cynical
– and it aligns with the repression of dissent.

It's naïve if anyone who was at the recent demonstrations against
Cheney didn't learn from them. No protester went there planning
'violence' – but the assembly decided to defy police and tried t
push through police lines. This choice meant that it was not a
'peaceful protest' by many definitions (and certainly not by that
of the corporate media.) Yet, the course of action taken was how
the group felt it had to be done. To try to march, people chose to
confront the police – and it was a confrontation in which many of
us suffered violence and arrest.

The next day was equally instructive: an entirely passive crowd was
terrorised by police snatch squads making utterly unfounded
arrests. If people believe that negotiating with police will ensure
a 'peaceful protest' then they don't seem to be living in the same
city as us.

Obviously it's important to encourage large-scale defiance in which
people can feel safe and brave whatever their level of involvement.
The cops are clearly trying to make anyone who might think about
protesting feel scared and we have to fight that. But insisting on
the image of 'peaceful protest' only amplifies the wedge politics
of the police and media: and it doesn't stop police violence. It
seems downright irresponsible to promise – or demand - peace.
Obedience will not make us safer.

In this context, it seems likely that, whatever the desire of the
organisers, people will choose to attend the protest prepared for
self-defence or other disobedient actions. Is the call for
'peaceful protest' an attempt by the small group producing the
poster to say that such tactics and politics are not welcome at the
protest? Of course anyone taking any action must take
responsibility for it and the effects they might have on others.

However, those who call a protest are not the boss or police of everyone who attends and cannot assume to control it. Is this group a coalition through which diverse events can be organised, or is it a collective planning a single march? (We assume it's the former; if not there is clearly a need for a broader group as well.)

If any groups were planning confrontational actions it would of
course be essential that they worked with respect alongside others
so that those who did not want to be involved wouldn't be drawn in
against their will, and so that other actions were not interfered
with. While communication was imperfect, this seemed to be fairly
well done at the G20 – many people went on a march and went home,
while those who overturned barricades etc were streets away. It's
important to continue to improve communication, not shut it down.

Our fear is that an assertion made now that the protests will be
explicitly 'peaceful' will shut down the discussions that need to
be had; that people will argue only that the protests should be
'peaceful' instead of accepting that people will organise in
diverse ways; that a small group will attempt to define what is
'legitimate' for the entire protest rather than working to ensure
mutual autonomy, safety and effectiveness.

This letter was not written because we're planning so-called
'violent protest' or know of some secret plans. We have no idea.
Preparing for APEC protests has not been a priority for us as a
group.

The police preparations seem to strengthen the arguments
against summit protest, especially doubts about the value of
challenging the state on their terrain and when they are most
prepared. On the other hand, they also strengthen feeligs that it
is important to defy police attempts to frighten us. This ambivalence is why we haven't been at meetings making these arguments; we hope this will as reason to dismiss our thoughts. We write in the hope that we or groups with politics similar to ours would be able to organise for APEC alongside others – in the hope that a diversity of tactics will be possible and the spaces for discussion and action will not be shut down.

In solidarity,
The Mutiny collective
(mutineers@graffiti.net)
============================================
* Mutiny is an anarchist collective from sydney, smeared by the corporate media and much of the left for action at the g20 summit last november

Yes I agree there are ways and there are ways!

Like this way and that....

Woodstock APEC 2007: Festival at Bondi Beach

This very friendly welcome to the festival. What strikes me as significant here is how fully your rosy expectations of peace and love were borne out, while the rest of world was biting its nails worrying about the potential for a disaster. You had to be there...

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/12/134178.php

Whether they can yet be proven, or ever will be proven, the insights that spiritual teachings and models provide us are going to be of crucial importance as the old civilization fails around us. There will be extraordinary pressures to fight and struggle against the increasing brutalities and controls of the old order. It will be only natural to want to take to the streets to protest, to riot, to man the barricades. However, spirituality and new tribalism are the ways to better lives - not violence.

The worst action we could possibly take in response to the new barbarities of the 2nd Inquisition and the War on Freedom is to retaliate with violence. If we do that we will be letting the OWO define the location and nature of the battlegrounds, and we will be committing to resolve our disputes with their rule of law.

Instead of massing to demonstrate outside government buildings and capitalist institutions we must employ Us-2-Us dialogue, and not go anywhere near traditional demonstration locations. Rather than congregating there, we should gather outside the cities, on the riverbanks, by the sea, and also on Freenet. We should carry and use PPDs, to confuse Big Brother, and we should exchange ideas and understanding among ourselves. There is no point in arguing or fighting with the madmen who are vainly trying to maintain the status quo amidst a giant wave of technological and spiritual change. We must decide our future without them.

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/06/114661.php

All over the world activist groups are using the wrong ideas to take on the Old World Order (OWO). Amnesty International, Greenpeace, Animal Liberation, and many other groups are often trapped by a wrong, but dominant, idea.

The idea involves changing what governments and corporations do.

A better idea is for us to change what we do. We still have control over many of our own actions, but almost no control over the actions of federal governments and global corporations.

Governments can easily ignore our attempts to make them change. They can also use the rule of law, and their considerable legal and financial resources, to defend whatever they do. Large corporations have similar capacities to resist pressures from ordinary people. Since the mid-eighties London Greenpeace has organised an annual World Day of Action against McDonalds. The protest takes place on 16th October. It attacks aspects such as the use of former rainforest land to graze cattle for beefburgers, the means of slaughtering chickens, the impact of fries and beefburgers on obesity, and the wages and conditions of employees. Greenpeace asks ordinary people to "..talk to friends and family, neighbours and workmates about these issues." Two activists, Helen Morris and David Steele were sued by the McDonalds corporation in 1990, for distributing a leaflet critical of McDonalds products and business practices. Although the pair came through the longest libel trial in British legal history with significant public support, and some favourable rulings, their leaflet did not change McDonalds products or practices at all.

Corporations like McDonalds can control what they do, and they can choose to ignore criticisms and use the legal system to silence those who speak out against perceived shortcomings in their operations and ethics. But individual citizens also have control over many aspects of their lives. You and I might not be able to travel internationally without visas, body searches, and currency restrictions, but we can still choose what we eat, what we watch, and who are friends are.

Withdrawing Our Support [139]
While we can't change governments and corporations, we can change what we ourselves control. Artificial scarcity is the bedrock of capitalism, but it is a two way street. By withdrawing our support for commercial products or government programs, we citizens can create scarcities of our own. We can cause a scarcity of consumers, a scarcity of program participants, and a scarcity of believers.

The latter form of scarcity is vital to diminishing the power and control of the Old World Order. Citizens, particularly those in the West, need to withdraw their support for official truths and the mechanisms that promulgate them. There might be good reasons to withdraw support from McDonalds products, but doing so would only harm that single corporation, and many of the people who work there. A wide refusal to consume McDonalds meals will never damage capitalism or hasten the transition to a Level 4 Civilization. However, a widespread withdrawal of support for the misinformation and lies disseminated by government and corporate spin-doctors, and the mainstream electronic media, can do so. Such a development can help us meet Daniel Quinn's key requirement for our survival as a species. "What we must have (and nothing less) is a whole world full of people with changed minds. "

Actions WE Can Take [140]
There are many actions that we can take to help the transition to a Level 4 Civilization. Some actions that are well within our power are suggested below, you can undoubtedly think of more.

*Turn off TV, to reject the propaganda of the OWO.
Become a 2nd Renaissance resident by choosing to describe your address in terms that exclude national identity.

*Establish and support the new category of Freeright, as a foil to Copyright.

*Rediscover kinship principles and establish support mechanisms that are independent of government programs.

*Widen civil scepticism and challenge the official truth - everywhere, every time.

*Expect high-level corruption and help to identify and publicise it.
See the War on Terror in context. Spread the understanding widely.

*Reject military solutions to terrorism. Spread understanding that wars cannot prevail against non-state opponents. Work to stop support for the War on Terror, on the grounds of its poor cost-benefits potential.

*Challenge restrictions of civil freedoms. Support secessions from federal systems and democracies that are spiralling into decline.

*Learn about new science and share your understanding widely. Do the same in respect of ancient knowledge and suppressed inventions.

*Seek to understand new technologies and their impact on scarcity. Spread information about new social and economic choices that arise from abundance.

*Confront the doctrines and practices of economic scarcity. Understand and spread awareness of the flawed nature of taker philosophies, and the growing opportunity to live differently - as leaver-givers.

*Move house. Congregate in new centres of 2nd Renaissance thought.
Help to develop the 2R centres. Help them break free of federalism.

*Stop voting. Stop supporting pseudo-democracies. Where voting is compulsory, vote informal. Reduce the numerical mandate of the OWO to legitimately govern states and federations of states (by creating a scarcity of voter support).

*Become involved in highlighting the failures of capitalism, federalism and nationalism. Use Freenet and whatever other channels that are available to send the messages out; across the world.

*Maintain resolve and hope, no matter what the OWO might do or say. Remain non-violent but always focused and insistent on rapid change - towards a Level 4 Civilization by 2014.

Turn Off TV [141]
The acclaimed linguist and author, Noam Chomsky, reminds us that most of our communications technologies are exclusive to the West. He says, "The Internet is an elite organisation; most of the world has never made a phone call." People who don't have television or access to the WWW, are both winning and losing. They are being spared the deluge of propaganda that comes from the major TV channels, but they are also missing the wealth of valid information that is available on the Internet. We are more fortunate. If we so choose, we can keep the Internet but stop tuning into the TV propaganda of the Old World Order.

Keep your TV set for viewing rented movies if you like, continue to use the print media for sporting and other information of a non-propaganda nature, but disconnect the TV broadcast feed from the antenna or fibre-optic cable. Your children will be better off growing up without an ever-present propaganda medium in the living room.

In due course, there will be global TV broadcasts emanating from various free cities and regions, that will be unencumbered by federalist, nationalist, and capitalist doctrines. Such transmissions will come to your home through the earth, without using existing communication cables and channels. In the meantime your family can be spared the intrusion of the OWO into the home, by the simple action of disconnecting the conventional signal feed to your TV set.

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/02/106816.php

For all of us who feel only the deepest love and affection for the way
computers have enhanced our lives but occasionally feel like taking a hammer to it, read on.

At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated,
"If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would
all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."

In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release
stating:
If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics (and I just love this part):

1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash........Twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.

3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.

4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.

5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five percent of the roads.

6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning light.

I love the next one!!!

7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.

8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.

9. Every time a new car was introduced, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.

This is a cool article. There is no need for any great split between peaceful and direct action people. Most direct action people recognize the 'force more powerful' that is the majority opinion desiring non-violent pacific protest...all we ask that we get equal respect because we have had had enough and want to use more stringent measures against this corrupt and violent power structure.
We actually complement each other in most circumstances because without the radicals there is often little or no coverage. To fall for the crude 'divide-and-rule' tactic of the state that demonizes direct action people is to fall at the first hurdle. The means used to gain social revolution determine the ends - a lesson Marxists who call for more National Bolshevism never learned - the means of diversity-of-tactics are the means of a truly cohesive united front strong enough to take down the most totalitarian state.
DoT doctrine for lack of a better term is good. DoT expresses the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
I appreciate this article immensely and thank youse for bringing it to our attention.
All the best - pr

They had diversity at the g-20 it didn't work so well only because the protest was at their institutions using their rule of law. If you people want, go and listen to nim fm the Madi Grass in Nimbin, love, life, laugh and enjoy real freedom.

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/05/144649.php

A large gathering of people at a space that is not directly at the confrontation point.

Just facing ignorant corp/gov who are only going to infiltrate and by using their thugs including the media and their rule of law and tactics to turn the peaceful protest around, doesn't work so well.

Let them post their army where we are not. Let them bridge up and intimidate no one. Let their horses protect traffic and let the gas canisters go stale.

This gathering is away from confrontation point but not too far, by the sea. No need for confrontation by anyone just love and peace exists in this space.

People protest, sing, dance, enjoy and be happy.

Same result accept no violence to be seen or heard.

If others go away from that point and get into trouble by being radical or violent then it's easy to claim that they did not acknowledge the demo and that they acted alone. Further why would they want to? If no one else was going to be there then they too will want to be with us.

Either way they are not going to change anything if they do go to the confrontation point. However, the large gathering like Woodstock would do the trick. Same as what it has done for Nibin Madi grass.

We can do it where it is safe and where it will work. Bring your slogans and signs, bring your material, bring your colour and imagination even bring the kids.

==================================

Prove to them that we don't want confrontation. And that we just seek change for a better world. Those people now affraid to go won't have to be.

I may be standing behind you.

I love you. We're here, I think, to be together-the music is a large part of our celebration, but it isn't what we're celebrating.

That joy we feel is unlocked by the music & dancing bodies & smiling faces, but it isn't any gift from outside, each one of us carried it here in his own personal heart, hoping for a chance to be joyous with friends ... I hope it's happening. I know it's happening. "You were only waiting for this moment to arise."

We're here to learn to fly. We need each other's support. "Any day now . . ." This is a political event. An Aquarian convention. Politics is supposed to be stuff that shapes the world we live in together-thousands of people feeling good together is the strongest political statement that car-L be made at this time, it is the affirmation of Life, here we are, we're alive! And it leaves absolutely no doubt as to what sort of a world we want ours to be.

We are here to have fun, aren't we? If you came to this festival for any other reason, don't you - feel a little silly just now? What's happening here is not just the release of music into the air, that's only being done by a few people

If you mean by music what comes through an amplifier, what's happening here is the release of energy and every last one of us is taking part. It feels good, yes?

"if you smile at me, I will understand . . ." That's the politics of ecstasy. Tim Leary could outsmile Richard Nixon with both hands tied behind his back. President Dick would never agree to the contest. He needs a hand free for The Button.

I love rock music, it makes me feel alive, it lets me in on the secret that I'm not alone in the world. The I Ching says about rock festivals: "The sacred music and the splendor of the ceremonies aroused a strong tide of emotion that was shared by all hearts in unison, and that awakened a consciousness of the common origin of all creatures. In this way disunity was overcome and rigidity dissolved. A further means to the same end is co-operation in great general undertakings that set a high goal for the will of the people; in the common concentration on this goal, all barriers dissolve."

"Gathering Together. Success. The king approaches his temple." Well, I assume that applies to all of us. What we're doing here is celebrating, and at the same time we're checking each other out, and what we see is a bunch of fools rushing in where angels fear to tread. And hooray for us; we've been fearful angels too long; we fools are the last great hope of mankind, and I'm happy to say we're going to make it

Enjoy the festival, friends.

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/12/134178.php

If only? I said it last time and look what happened no one wanted to change what they had prevously done and the result went to the wolves. Diversity yes but somewhere else.

peace and love hippies at woodstock did not stop the vietnam war.

the people at mardi grass have not ended cannabis prohibition.

All those things do is create ghettos of activists which are easily ignored.

Nor did the g20 stop anything but ended in fear, bad feelings, pain and heartacke for lots of people.

What's better love, peace, and joy?

Or bad feelings, fear, pain, broken bones, and heartacke.

And as you say even for the same result?

Yet you will never know that unless you try it first! Yay!

"In the common concentration on this goal, all barriers dissolve."

Bring people together 'including' the black bloc!

Imagine No friendley's to get angry with this time!

We need every ant we can get on side if we are going to change anything!

a million people can gather together for a party or concert. they will still be ignored. (like the peaceful demonstrations on feb 13 2003)

if a million people attack the fences at APEC, they can shut them down.

A more appropriate example. We can vote Labor and pray that they implement good policies. Or we can have a general strike and force good policy.

You say, "if a million people attack the fences at APEC, they can shut them down."

=========================

Let me ask you how you're going to arrange for a million people to do that?

The only way you will get a million people seeking change is to make a million and one people feel happy about seeking change. And to do that they won't need to attack fences!

The only way to do that is to prove to them that you love them and encourage more of them to join your aim because it will be better for everyone.

Or you can just fuck off.

All my life I have searched for clues
This is what they taught me
Every mystery I pursued
Was a secret I already knew
Deep down you know - in your soul
Love is in control
Oh, if you could find the angel within
Time, time to have faith in your wings

Free - everybody's free
In the new day that's coming
Freedom for all is our destiny

Every stone that I left unturned
Soon came back to haunt me
Every fall, every finger burned
Was a step on the road to truth
That I am you - my soul
You are not alone
Oh, when your heart is turned to stone
Love, love is the only way home

Free - everyone's free
In the new day that's coming
Freedom for all is our destiny

Freedom from shame
Freedmo from fear
Freedom to live - it's your right to be here

Unity of minds... unity of hearts... one sole sensation... no longer a
coincidence...
Overwhelming energy... channeled... through universal language allows
the personal legend to unfold

"A more appropriate example. We can vote Labor and pray that they implement good policies. Or we can have a general strike and force good policy."

=======================

An even more appropriate example. We can vote Nobody because nobody cares and that's a fact! And we can have a general strike too!

Nobody wins Welsh election!

As a result of yesterday's Welsh election results nobody did win!
http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2007/05/144552.php

The Mutiny collective no offence are putting moronic nonsense out about protest - newsflash - non-violent protest can be very disobedient. It can involve breaking through police lines, targetted property damage, disobeying police and getting arrested. What it cant involve is trying to hurt people!!! This includes police and other members of the state. This is what some protesters did at G20 they threw things at police lines and behaved in a fashion that could have resulted in the injuring of police - this is not non-violent.
Stop trying to portray peaceful protest as passive and actually have the honesty to debate your real position which is the best way to confront the state is through violence. Stop hiding your debate behind the rubbish line "respect diversity of tactics".
Peaceful rallies did not stop the Vietnam War but neither did the Weather Underground (look it up on wikipedia if you dont know what I am talking about).
I dont mind playing divide the movement - you can divide the movement into people who are honestly prepared to declare and debate their positions and wankers who want to support violent protest but not actually talk about the moral and political consequences of their decisions. You suck!

I don't know how true that statement is Davey I did not read it in the article. But regardless of their motives either way they seem to have raised a good point to discuss. Don't you think? Seems to me that organisers can be smart enough to take the demo elsewhere therefore those intent on breaking the peace 'code' have to travel away from the main group.

That means that they are not with the main group and alone. As if they're prepared to act alone? People who use violence need the protection of the crowd.

So they won't do that alone IMHO.

Better to lead by example if their real intentions as you say are indifferent?

By leading by example we can help them understand that in common we may be able to achieve the same or even better results that we all won't, without violence.

It will be better anyway for one good reason if none at all. We will make more friends that means more ants.....

Because violence does not win.

By leading by example we can help them understand that in common we may be able to achieve the same or even better results that we all 'wan't', without violence.

I just read that again. Yes they did raise a point but like you said not a good point.

Good on you Davey I didn't read that well enough!

But regardless perhaps we can now convince them otherwise?

What do you reckon?

Thanks for bring that to my attention. I've had a hard day!

Don't you just love peace, love and kindness? All the way with LPK.

...aren't you mates with Marcus the child molesting terrorist?
The ABORIGINAL child molesting terrorist?
See how gross stereotyping and strawmanning works?
The mutiny collective are like a lot of us who have their limits. We can't and won't submit to slavery one second more! I would like more of us to be reasonable measured and decent and humane rational sentient beings but some of us are more like Spartacus's gladiators sunshine.
Don't you get it?
We have HAD ENOUGH!
More and more now people know who starts the violence and what the approprite resonse is - if you don't know whats happening in Greece then you just ain't payin' attention. Measured violence in self defence is lawful violence. Self defence is a defence in law , even against a murdering police charge. ( Just read a good book on an AFP murdering cop btw. By John Suter Linton)
Look what yr saying Davey - yr buying into this mindless manichean ' for-us-or-against-us' bs that the authoritarians specialize in.
And heres a newsflash - some violence may be required to overthrow an opressive state. It was in South Africa and even in the ' Rose revolution' where three people died in accidents. Violence is a fact of life - just ask yr mate Marcus. Our aim must be to minimize it and paradoxically that sometimes means applying a certain amount.
No decent democratic or libertarian socialist I know is 'hiding' anything. The only ones with the constant working memory hole are the Marxists. So we welcome debate undertaken in good faith with people who are not tainted by either Brown or Red fascist tendencies.
We certainly won't win the hearts and minds of the masses of the world with Marxist pie-in-the-sky-when-you-die. We wouldn't deserve too either. Even if you say people are voting with their feet I would counter that is because of the impression that for a couple of years now the good lefts been rising.
So why go out and risk getting clubbed when victory seems so close?
Thats how I see the slight decline.
The Weather Underground did a lot of great actions so I won't hear a bad word against them from the likes of you. Even if some were Marxist idiots well sometimes even Nazi or Islamofascist idiots manage to strike a blow against the strongest state. Pacifists have a strong case and are the majority and command respect but they deserve better arguments than this sad little squeal from you Davey.
What happened to make you so sour anyway?

pro2rat@yahoo.etc when was the last time you struck a blow? I'll tell you from my personal experience over many years reading your rant and rave.

The last time you struck a blow was when you could convince someone to do it for you!

Who do you work for man? ASIO!

Besides that you're a very rude and crude bastard and might I say, not in a shy way...out of order.

Will the mod please strike that off the record?

Contempt of IMC!

If the police approach is toward the militarization/intimidation end of the spectrum - the 'Sarky' end - then we should Molotov them out of their tanks and kick their lily arse's.
If it is - on the other hand - toward the 'softly-softly', community constable on the beat 'Bill' end then we should request that they all wear large, individual, fluro, sewn-on numbers and letters.
This would make them less of a 'Bikie-gang' in appearence and help cut down the endemic theft that goes on in police stations.

this post and the comments are GREAT material -- the poster seems concerned that the world doesn't spin on (their) demand, awhh shucks! But the really, reallly, really, irritating problem is that other people may choose to exercise their personal prerogatives and engage in a peacful protest or a variegated number.

this post is a field day for Freudians and anal retentive (control freaks). Whatever came out of the woodwork is no better than the enemy ... they are just envious of the freaks already in power.

dealt with your kind numerous times -- interfere with yourself and the mindless morons that may think you're a natural born (loser)leader -- but we know what you REALLY are don't we, fuck knuckle ..

as for peaceful protests, i think Gandhi proved a point -- it's a matter of mobilising large numbers NOT pararanting or attempting to control others. but u have attracked an intriguing bunch of paeds, informers, agents and dippies -- do whatever you like cos we will -- I'm gonna have fun fingering you -- the pigs are the least of your worries, closet dictator, fascist prick!

Do whatever you like and others will do it as they see fit -- get a handle on it (freedom) you fuckin closet conservative control freak.

btw -- all these posts are COUNTER PRODUCTIVE but you and your informer, agent, paed mates knew that didn't yas?

very pleeezed to meet Uoohooo...

Why have anything to do with them at all. They're just doing their job in the city.

We won't be there.

So good or bad we don't know and we don't care because all they'll be doing is directing traffic.

That's what cops are for.

Hello all..
Hmm.
those economic masters of the universe, parasites leaching off the rest of us can meet and enjoy their own foul stinking company.

I've read your work mutiny.. ( same font as the band ErrrrHmm..)
As an anarchist ( someone who is active in Anarchist groups ) I can't say I was very impressed. It was hard to tell if you were talking shit in some sections or knowingly ( or unknowingly ) incriminating yourself. ( please don't ask me to sight examples as I'd hate to have ta bore myself again by going over your work)

The point i'd like to make is this.
Who gives a fuck what the left wants to do.... or say for that matter.?? not me.
summit hopping is so late 90's.... It's time to evolve.... Or is it?

We can meet on any day we like!!

People who were around would remember j18!... http://www.urban75.org/j18/

It was argued before G20 in Melbourne that people step out of the binary logic, break from the tentacles of the middle class left student movement and do something truly damaging to capital... Such as destroy the ticket machines on a large Melbourne train line and punish one of the largest private transport companies in the worlds bottom line - in turn also provide free fares to the Melbourne punters. Show the masters up and make ya ideas relevant to the slaves. **ASIO take notes here**

Would have been a far more effective message than the Ya Basta Auto-bot Marxist masturbation session I saw going on down in the CBD.

I'm sure some of you dudes were really getting off on seeing that one play out.

read quote bellow...
***************************************************************************
"A first communique from two uncitizens of Arterial Bloc"
"White overalls also have a particular historical resonance within the contemporary anti-capitalist movement, having been for many years the disguise of choice for the Tute Bianche, an autonomist group of largely Italian origin who began organising in 1994. Now is not the time or place for an extended discussion of the Tute Bianche, but a decent quote from one of their many documents (freely available on the internet) may help to illuminate the political arguments in favour of disguise:

"The white overalls are not a movement, they are a tool which was devised in the context of a broader movement (the social centers of the Charta of Milan) and made available to an even broader movement (the global one). Nowadays the white overalls exist in many countries. The white overalls are neither an institution nor a political current, nor are they to be strictly identified with Ya Basta! or the social centers of North-East Italy […] "

***************************************************************************
Yawn.....
I'm sick of the fantasy, I'm sick of the bullshit..... I want something that's not constructed, that's real.......!!!

Health and Anarchy !!!!

Up with Authenticity!

Keith!

Look at these crawling defeatists doing their best for the status quo! If peaceful protest achieved anything it would be illegal.

Let these flute tootlin' dingbats lead the other folding dingbats down to a wank-in-athon on Hamlin beach. They'd only be gettin' their fey hippy arses in the way anyway. With any luck the architects of the cave in will lead the other maudlin quitter dingbats into a watery grave. That'd give everyone else something to party about. Woo Hoo.

Lest we forget whats given us this present situation so full of promise - three lame ducks in a row. Bush, Blair and the local yokel bullshit sheriff himself, Howard. Whats given us this is large pacifist protests sure...but also some not insignificant or small acts of extreme violence directed at seppo invaders in SW Asia.

Shookoran.

"The point i'd like to make is this.
Who gives a fuck what the left wants to do.... or say for that matter.?? not me.
summit hopping is so late 90's.... It's time to evolve.... Or is i"

===========================

The left?

Who is the 'left' Keith? Are you referring to the left as vandals?

What about the 'Peace' or the 'righteous' seems more appropriate.

Because if the left are vandals or violent then they're the righteous aren't they?

Defeatism On The March?

People are mostly only mean when you attack them.

We need to bail out of a failed system not attack. Yes go to nimbin after the demo and smoke bongs because it's better than being in a hospital bed or locked up in a prison after you get out of hospital, I can assure you!

WARNING

What this thread actually proves to me is that there are too many losers in Australia to ever think that other peace loving people can hold a demo without them.

Do you agree truth seekers?

On that basis anyone planning a peaceful demo other than away from the city should stay home and have a bong. Because you won't be able to avoid the contamination of the morons who insist on being reckless and indifferent.

I must say I agree with Kevin. We've lost before we begin. I quit. But that doesn't prove that I'm a spineless jellyfish quitter, it just shows that as an adherent to NV my shit doesn't stink and I'm better than you. Now pass the bong to dear old Dr Bunghole.

New definition for insanity - doing NVDAs ten times and expecting a different result each time.

OK, now that this thread has demonstrated how not to organise a protest, let's have a protest ....

Add a dash of diempowerment to the potion?

I must say I agree with Kevin? It seems that you don't agree with me in that:

I'm 'not' saying that we've 'lost' before we begin. I'm saying we need to change what we do to 'win' hands down.

This thread proves that if peace loving people are not prepared to 'change' what they do then they can only 'expect' more of the same.

People are crying out for 'change' but when asked what they think will change it they, "ask for more of the same". But more of the same won't change it!

Do you follow?

OK, now that this thread has demonstrated how to organise, let's have a demonstration, with love, peace, kindness and joy. Let's also listen to the music, the beat of the 'drums' and make lots of friends along the by way.

More ants mean more supporters............

You cannot change the world by means of either violence or non-violence alone. It's a tactical question.

For example;

Lets say you could organise people to drop out of the capitalist system, create a alternative community, one based on the collective ownership of the means of producing the needs of that community. One where the political and economic decisions are made democraticly by all members of the community. This alternative would be a threat to the capitalist ruling class and they would use whatever means, whatever violence necessary to smash it. In order to defend this alternative, violence would be necessary. You would be forced into a violent confrontation with the capitalist state.

On the other hand there are those who recognise this fact and come to the conclusion that the only way is to precipitate this inevitable violent confrontation as soon as possible. Some think this will spark masses of people into action. Some don't think that sparking mass action is necessary, that a small band of highly committed and effective revolutionaries can attack capitalism and there state at strategic points and make it unworkable, leading to it's collapse.

Some of the problems with this approach are;

The capitalist state is large, strong, well armed and fucking mean. attacking it without sufficient forces will result in being smashed and the de-moralisation of you're forces.

Going underground to avoid this problem works for a time but results in isolation and the formation over time of increasingly wacky ideas.

Can give a pre-text for the state to implement harsher security measures. Hearding and coraling 'ordinary protesters', discouraging people from protesting.

These are only some of the problems, there are many more, but I am running out of time for this post.

The only proven strategy is a mass action strategy. Which seeks to draw into action a large number of people around one or a small number of demands. Actions can include street protests, public meetings, movement meetings, mass leafleting, information stalls, publicity stunts, civil disobedience, mass civil disobedience, blockades ect.

The idea is that through practical experience with trying to change the world and the exposure to alternative ideas, participants can be come radicalised. They can start to realize it's the system that's fucked and to change the world we have to change the system.

From there we to work out what kind of organisation can co-ordinate all these revolutionary minded people to carry out the tasks needed to change the system, ie over-throw
captalism.

The process of gaining full freedom from nation states will not involve revolution or civil disobedience. It will thus be beyond the power of federal governments to attack or control.

Daniel Quinn, writing in Beyond Civilization, Humanity's Next Great Adventure, puts the situation into sharp focus. Quinn uses the analogy of an aircraft in trouble, he argues that in such a situation nobody wants to shoot or overthrow the pilot, they only want a parachute and an open door. As Quinn sees it, governments always have countermeasures in place to put down any attack on their authority and power from within (aircraft pilots might have a double locked door between their cockpit and the main cabin, as well as weapons to use if they are attacked by passengers), but governments never have any defences against abandonment (a line of passengers with chutes exiting the external door of the main cabin).

Quinn contends that while governments can imagine a revolution they can't imagine abandonment. As he puts it, "..even if it could imagine abandonment , it couldn't defend against it, because abandonment isn't an attack, it's just a discontinuance of support."

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/02/106136.php

It takes two to tango. In the event that either party to an agreement, such as the basis of a system of representative democracy, breaks both its spirit and its principles, the relationship can be legitimately severed. This need not involve a revolution or an overthrow of the current power elites. It is simply a matter of separation. Of going off in different directions, and to different futures. Neither party has the legal right to prevent the other from separating from the agreement. Constitutional lawyers or not, once the fundamental basis of the agreement has been destroyed by criminal acts, the whole deal can be called off. The days when the church could enforce matrimonial relationships for life, have long gone. Similarly, the power of constitutions to enforce the permanency of government / citizen relationships, is passing into history. In the event that a Federal government develops into the ultimate organised crime, the citizens of that decayed democracy have an inalienable right to secede from that federation.

Negotiating The Separation
The following mock dialogue illustrates the arguments involved in a region, state, or city within a federation opting to secede from the relationship, on the grounds of undemocratic processes and deep criminality in the administration having invalidated the basis of an existing constitutional agreement.

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/108175.php

Geez lighten up a tad kids...you can play on the left wing and not just go straight down the middle or play on the right wing youse know.
Is this basic or what ?
Why do you want to eliminate the "Left" option and focus on the middle of the raod where you can get run down.
On the right wing the game can be best summed up as dodgy - you beter dodge those religious and plitical Authoritarians who have come to dominate the play as youse keep putting the ball in their domain where let's be frank they keep taking the ball off ya and kicking goals
eg September Crown Casino 2000 anti-WEF and the more recent November 2006 anti-G20 round.

You may find some good players on the Left wing who can take the bal and kick a few goals despite your ignoring them eg Union Solidarity has had 50 blues and won almost all of them.
Now that is a real contrast to the hyped up Philosopher's Game style you have so far chosen to strut around and pose for.

Of course the US game plan has been heavily studied by Freehils Lawyers for Howard Inc who want to rule LiberalLand after the next Election so they may make "sub-contracting" ie baton-passing solidarity community protests illegal too but surely there are curently too many coaches, too many wannabe Captains and not enough of youse willing to have a go at the ball where you find it e everyday life in the suburbs, workplaces, shopping centres, gatherings of proles who would baarck for you even join your Club if you could only play the whole field ie the left wing too.

There endeth the footy tip for today.
Forsooth thus spake the old player.

France: Let's be ungovernable! - Post-election statement by Alternative Libertaire
Date Mon, 07 May 2007 14:05:50 +0300

The election of Nicolas Sarkozy marks the victory of a project for social destruction and police repression. He is the candidate most openly favorable to the bosses and to the dominant class and he intends to govern in the best interests of the French employers' federation, the Medef.
Let's be ungovernable! --- The election of Nicolas Sarkozy marks the victory of a project for social destruction and police repression. He is the candidate most openly favorable to the bosses and to the dominant class and he intends to govern in the best interests of the French employers' federation, the Medef.
We need to start preparing right away to counter the attacks to come. And Sarkozy has already clearly indicated his intentions: smashing labour law and the single contract, loosening the 35-hour week, restricting the right to strike, an authoritarian reinforcing of the regime, an increase in harsh "security" measures, repression of working-class districts and an intensification in the hunt for "sans-papiers".

The popular classes and the social and trades-union movements will now be confronted with a true challenge. Faced with a combative government and employers, no credit or confidence can be granted to a Socialist Party confined in its inoffensive and sterile parliamentary opposition, and which moreover shares many of the policies of the UMP [1] (pension reform, expulsion of "sans-papiers", etc.). Workers do not have anything to gain from allowing themselves to be chained to a hypothetical hope of a change of heart by an increasingly right-wing Socialist Party.

If we are to make any gains we will have to struggle for them. The election campaign have been marked by social conflicts (the strikes at the PSA Peugeot-Citroën factory in Aulnay-sous-Bois, Airbus-Eads, etc.) which must serve as inspirations for future fights. But to put a halt to the neo-liberal juggernaut, we need to put an end to struggles without strategy, protests without follow-ups and defend the autonomy and unity of the social movements, free from interference by the agendas of political parties and institutional games.

Alternative Libertaire
6 May 2007

Translation by FdCA-International Relations

[Translator's note:
1. Union pour un Mouvement Populaire. Sarkozy's party, the "Union for a Popular Movement".]

http://www.alternativelibertaire.org

Mutiny collective are reinventing the wheel, despite the lessons of history. This is just old-fashioned vanguardism dressed up in post-modernist garb. They reject federalism but without any serious critique of it. Their ideas are so ancient they even pre-date Bakunin* and most other anarchists. They espouse violence while all the time quite aware of the ramifications (increased repressive State violence and a licence for the elite to further marginalise the 'left'). So, what is the real aim of 'mutiny collective'? I am entitled to ask this question.

*liberty must establish itself in the world by the spontaneous organisation of labour and of collective ownership by productive associations freely organised and FEDERALISED in districts, and by the equally spontaneous federation of districts, but not by the supreme and tutelary action of the State. [Bakunin]

"To remain isolated, acting or wanting to act each off his own bat, without understanding each other, without preparing ourselves, without gathering together the fragile forces of the isolated, means condemning ourselves to weakness, to wasting our energy in small ineffectual acts, to losing faith quickly in our objectives and to complete starvation" [Malatesta].

"..a structure based on centuries of history cannot be destroyed by a few kilos of explosives." - [Kropotkin]

unfortunately, capitalist and political elite aren't the only ones to not learn from history.

Alabama: - Terrorism: Awareness and Prevention - Anarchist Groups

http://www.homelandsecurity.alabama.gov/tap/anarchist.htm

Anarchist groups generally:

1. Counter-protest hate groups
2. Protest:

• Globalization

• World Trade

• Military Intervention

o
Anarchists groups are the 21st Century's version of left wing or communist groups of the last. Anarchists believe that any government or organization that has power over others, no matter how good, will eventually become corrupt and abusive. So far, without major causes to incite mass public opinion (such as civil rights and the Vietnam war were in the 1960's), and without a national organization or coalition of organizations, these groups have focused on specific limited issues.

Most of these groups operate around larger urban areas and colleges/universities.

A diverse mix of organizations, many target hate groups for often violent counter-protests. Some are focused on issues such as World Trade, International Debt, and military involvement in foreign cultures. Meetings of the World Trade Organization or the International Monetary Fund are guaranteed to attract protests.

The theme is always the same. Big is bad. Rich are using the poor to stay rich. Our government in particular is using its power immorally.

NEXT PAGE > "Separatists Movements"

Without regrets but pleasant memories
What once was
We walk towards tomorrow ... free ...
Listening, analysing, communicating
Never forgetting
That meaningful signs
Come from the heart

And tell of time what gifts for thee he bears,
What griefs and wonders in the wandering years.

one wonders at times...., today's activists fail to realise WAR strategies. Either your gonna protest physically, verbally and mentally or your gonna paint ur faces and play kindy playtime for the entertainment of the man.

u will all justify the presence of the Feds and pigs if u don't do it right this time.

fight club has been reco'd ... never seen it but i favour direct action and that entails confrontation and STRATEGY, doesn't it, dreamboats?

Bin-throwing at parked vehicles, now there's a good idea, who's for it!!!!!

ROFL