Liar, liar, planet on fire: Howard's nuke lies : Melbourne Indymedia

Many of us understand Howard's nuclear posturing to be the kind of political grain he is fond of throwing to the media chooks whenever anyone is getting better media than him . He often makes off the wall statements when Beazley is looking good and last week Labor launched a quite credible climate action plan that included more renewables, ratifying Kyoto and individuals taking action. No one's saying that will save us, but it's a start.

I have to admit, when I first thought about nuclear power as a possible zero emission power source, I too was taken in by the rhetoric. The spectre of rapid climate change causing the natural disasters like Katrina or the increased flooding on pacific and torres strait islands is indeed frightening enough to muddle ones judgment and John Howard and the pro-nuclear lobby are relying on that. It seems even some so-called greenies have come to the pro-nuclear party, with The Australian newspaper's editor telling us 'many' agree with Howard on nuclear power. Those of us that don't - over 50% of the Australian people - are, according to Howard, 'green extremists' (I'm surprised 'unaustralian' didn't come up).

But beware taking things at face value. We know from experience the Howard govt are adept at fabricating facts to suit their agendas. We are still reeling from the size of the porkies he told about children overboard, the GST, WMDs just to name a few famous ones. The greenies supporting him are not 'many' – they are really just a handful and some of them have dubious financial interests in doing so (like Patrick Moore, co-founder of Greenpeace whose received some flack from Captain Paul Watson, the other co-founder for his cynical money grabbing as an industry consultant).

Nuclear power is by no means 'clean and green' as Howard would have us believe. In 2001 the US Better Business Bureau and the Federal Trade Commission (the equivalents of the Aussie ACCC Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) found that claims by energy utilities that nuclear power is clean and green are 'unsubstantiated'.

Arm yourselves with these facts people, because we've got a long haul opposing ludicrous and wasteful solutions to climate change coming from this government who until recently denied climate change was happening (indeed some of them still do).

They have finacial interests in promoting their lies about the nuclear industry, the Howard govt sees dollar signs in their eyes when they talk about uranium and waste dumps. Nuclear power is just a subterfuge to make other aspects of the nuclear cycle more acceptable to us buy being the lesser of evils.

As distinguished Canadian environmentalist and scientist David Suzuki put it at his National Press Club address last week, Howard's view on nukes & climate indicates he is an arsehole.

The lying little lawyer rat Howard cannot say sorry or admit error. Ever. So far his lawyer skills and rat cunning have held him in good stead but reality is crashing his tea party.

The umpire's decision is in : this turd is a bonafide psychopath.

Now what does that say about the people who vote for him? Time to build some new gas chambers I reckon.

What unsubstantiated/false propaganda. You're living in the 70s my moronic friend... Wake up and smell the fact that the world continues to industrialize and needs more and more energy. Ever heard of India or China? Nuclear is BY FAR the best road going forward.

You rag that switching to nuclear would reduce green house emissions by 'only' 8% (which is way too low by the way). Your tirade is so full of errors its hilarious... Your BS about safety and uranium 'economics' is a riot. Nice spelling too... Yeah, and Howard is the 'arsehole.' Look in a mirror buddy... I hope lightening strikes that tree you're hugging.

Then provide your arguments about how their inaccurate.

You can find detailed substantiation and sources for the statements by kimk in this report:
http://www.melbourne.foe.org.au/documents.htm

You may want to take a look at this

we need 100 people at this so we can occupy a city interesection and hold up a giant sign NO NUKES IN OZ

great werk hillel (and friends)

go hard!

.

Howard & honest.

These Two things have lots in common with hogwash and I do not for one moment think that pigs ever get washed therefore am confused as to why the term hog wash was ever coined or why you sorry bunch of fools still think Nuke is a good idea.

Nuke power cannot help global warming, nothing can.
The CO2 is already in the atmosphere, 1 third more that before industrialization. The tipping point has occurred, now acid seas are dissolving limestone cliffs releasing locked co2, warm seas are melting frozen methane deposits releasing a gas that is 27 times more harmful and permafrost swamps in the artic tundra are now releasing more greenhouse gas than humans could ever create.

Its not just global warming or climate change anymore, its something more severe, its accelerating….its here.
WE cannot turn back the clock, recapture the gas and turn it back into a solid, we cannot undo, replant forests or reestablish swamps or the lost carbon sinks wherethe gas had safe storage.

Nature was once able to geosequester, we have only the faintest idea and can only give lip service.

Nuke power delivers more problems while it only delivers electricity, which is only one reason we have GW, it’s a small portion of green house, and not a big part of the global disaster.
In a decade Climate change with low costs for electrical goods has seen a rise in power demands Aus wide, everyone now has air con, everyone has big white goods, everyone is using more power as temps go up.

Nuke power needs fresh water, we have drought.
Nuke power needs technicians, we have a skill shortage and no universities that are training nuke technicians.

We will not build Nuke power stations, we cannot even replace Lucus hights.

Nuke power will not operate once temps go over 38… It has something to do with water turning to steam through cooling towers and back into water. It’s too hot here. we do not have the water.

There was plans to build nuke power to run desalination plants for all capitals. I wonder if the desalinated water was for the powerstations to create steam and enough water to create that steam.

However let be serious.

The debate has been about making Nuke look good & safe so that Australia can develop greater markets for our uranium. Even though it represents a danger, and creates a waste that any responsible government will have to safeguard for the next 10 000 years our honest John has chosen to deal with China.

The least responsible nation in our region and the nation that gave North Korea the wherewithal to build a bomb.

I am still amazed that the uranium issue has not been answered by geothermal, if geothermal was given as much coverage you would know by now that two holes in the ground can create more power than nuke for no co2 and no waste all at low cost.

It’s the one source of abundant power never discussed and the only one that is truly worth investing in.

Unfortunately geothermal power stations do not burn coal, they will not need uranium and they will not require solar panels wind mills or tidal estuaries. Geothermal will generate all your power needs cleanly and cheaply but it will destroy our chances to sell coal or the uranium to china, geothermal will destroy the power economy, it will wreak the oil industry and might even end the nuclear threat.

But power depends upon greater things than just the convenience to plug something in.

Power depends upon humans being in stable communities for long enough for power to benifit. Global warming will interupt these communities, raise prices for food and water, luxury goods will not sell,. Retail will fold, real eatate will slide and unemployment will rise.

Governments are already pouring in greater funds for police army and prisons.

Did you think it was for terrorists?

Nothing for the enviroment, but 10 billion for the ADF.

Yo Howard, whaddya do when m'fuckas underestimate your size man?

First of all I laugh
(Then what?)
Smash their arse like a goddamn carcrash
So if you wanna try your luck
C'mon...play pussy'n'get fucked
Arsehole snicker and get beat
Your a bad motherfucker if you dare to compete
Cause Tammy Wynette be comin' at your ass fool
And have you singing the white trash blues
To all now bicker and I'll pound
Let's go around
Iemma take ya, shake ya
Then brake ya down
And if you kick Iemma I pick up a stick
And beat your ass to the size of your dick
And that's small
And you think you're mackin' when you're lackin?
King John is packin!
I'll show your girl how a real man feels
Large things come in very small packages
And while your gettin' on your knees to fuck
A bugger like me's still standin' up
Any Liberal party bitch will tell you:
As long as he got a big dick, size ain't shit

Liftin weights'll make you bigger
But lift me you be a dead-arse fucker
You wanna squabble coz ya think you're tougher?
(Automatic unloading) Swallow that motherfucker!
Those are called ADF bullets, they got 'em in every state
To keep Pacific Nigaz like you in place
And since I'm a trigga happy honky
Look for your place to be in a
Cemetary, you goddamn sucka
Lying next to another bad motherfucka
Reputation ain't shit coz see:
Once you done dead in the past 10 years don't excite me
V-I-C-T-O-R-Y
You can't have it...na-na-na-na-na!
Any motherfucker wanna get with Howard?
Bring it on 'cause your size ain't shit!

I been a stupid-arse motherfucker ever since
I been a stupid-arse motherfucker ever since
I been a stupid-arse motherfucker ever since
The Canberra penitentiary became my residence
It wasn't nothin' for me to disfigure
You little nickle-and-dime-ALP losers
Shank a motherfucker in a minute
And I knew my Trullijo holmes'd be wit'it
I don't give a fuck about a pardon
The shit I was startin', nor a goddamn warden
Take a motherfucker like you
And without remorse this is what I'll do:
Punk you down like this country and make you be my bitch
Then make you shit on this dick...for 1 cigarette!!
It ain't any harder then my dick when you talkin' shit
Carry on motherfucker 'cause your size ain't shit

Some stupid motherfucker said he had an advantage
Fuck my size, you wanna do damage?
Contestant #1 c'mon down!
You're the next motherfucker com'n Beazley u'clown
So don't get excited like your bid is fair
Cause you ain't winnin' shit but a root canal
When I throw a motherfuckin' right cross
And bust you down your goddamn mouth
Now where's the height comin' from?
Don't make me use this goddamn gun
Cause I'll give your arse hell then charge ya rent
Fuck you up like a goddamn accident
Innocent is how I look
But a cracker this size ain't supposed to cook
You took me for a sucker that errection day...
Now bitch you find out the hard way:
Size ain't shit!!

People are now running around with their hair on fire screaming that we have to do something about a nuclear rogue terror state run by brainwashed lunatics that is backed up by nobody else in the world but another bigger rogue terror state that is also armed with nukes.
The larger state has a standing army of over a million prisoners, many of whom are executed and they allow the smaller state to terrorize and threaten its neighbors so I have to agree with the panic merchants.
This is a terrible situation and once it's solved then we might try doing something about Korea.

Mr
by Daniel Taylor Monday October 23, 2006 at 01:44 PM
dtay0010@mail.usyd.edu.au 0249842721 12 Horace St Shoal Bay

The frightening thing is that with exploration more uranium will be found. Point 6 is really no point at all, rather we are headed towards a situation where uranium may be mined in any number of countries limitlessly. It will not alleviate climate change but precipitate eternal war, which is apart from being utterly destructive of humanity and human society, the worst possible outcome for the environment.

The invasion of Iraq, was the world's second overt nuclear war, that is a war over (imagined) nuclear weapons. The imagination however was one implanted into our minds, the minds of the public, by the leaders who could not have believed their own lies. Now that the precedent is set, we must prepare ourselves to stop future such nuclear wars.
Dan

Global warming cannot be solved by nuclear power, not even lessened; the effects are being felt in the here and now, there are 380 parts per billion of airborne co2 which at current rates will increase, (even if current emissions are cut by 70%) by 2050 the amount will be 550 parts per billion. That means 1/3rd more droughts more severe weather, more deaths due to climate change than current wars and bigger promises from governments in panic as they watch civilisation crumble.

The atmosphere is a bank; it stores methane and co2 released by both man and nature. Chlorides from severe storms churning oceans gave us that great big ozone hole. Largely the problem gets more severe each year because on the ground the trees have been cleared while swamps have been drained this disables the earth’s ability to contain the gases just as the frequency of seismic activity increases and nature adds more gases from its subterranean stores.

Are we just being fooled by uranium sellers who see the potential profits of uranium sales? Isn’t it that obvious? when the same governments willing to sell or purchase are those trying to retain a market share in another fuel to drive their own traditional economies?.

China has used up all its coal, its oil and has harnessed its water just in time to see that global warming has melted its own feeder glaciers, there is no more.

Nuclear promises the greatest growing economy in the world more power to continue to burn raw materials in all industries; I see no enviromental advantage in this effort.

We are the consumers eager to bring on the worst of global warming by demanding that our lifestyle remain comfortable. We will eventually accept that those lifestyles are the cause of global warming and we will suffer the consequences of our own stupidity.

Humans can plan for the future we can see beyond tommorow but we will not reduce the impact, because that would effect our behaviour today.

Look around you and see what is being done to lessen the effects of this global catastrophe. It’s not much, but like a fat woman at Macca’s she’ll promise to go on a diet soon, just as the thick shake slides onto her waist she’ll say, there’s no rush there’s no hurry.

And she is right there is no point in wasting your life concerned about a done deal, these short years of calm will soon be over.

It’s a shame to see the end of the human race, but perhaps the nuclear threat holds a silver lining.

Imagine if they really do drop the big one and the retaliation begins, we will have a nuclear winter, billions of particulate will reflect the suns rays the ice cap will reform while glaciers will recharge and then the cause of all this demand will be gone, the market for consumerism will be frozen on a global scale.

I just hope the lesson learnt will be that global warming is caused by the wealthy wanting more.

In short, for those against global warming, I want to know how much support do you think you'll get from governments who should be reversing economic policy?

Remember the surplus created from the driving force behind GW is the same money that pays government and supplies welfare, healthcare police and armed warfare.

These are the things that keep society going, and the world heating up.

What can be done?

I don't think you actually understand how a power grid works. It doesn't work like food, where you eat some and then that is enough for a while, or eat extra and then you're fuller for longer. It requires a constant stream of nutirent, and if it falls off for so much as a millisecond, you die. You can't feed in a little more to top up for the lean times, either.

I'll use a crude analogy. Imagine there's a button you have to press and it is force sensitive. It is attached to a meter that shows how hard you are pressing that button. Now, imagine on that meter (think old school thermometer style gauge if you like) that there is a line on your meter you must keep your little reading above, by applying a certain amount of force. That's how power works. Electricity generation is all about keeping the amount of power on the grid above that line. I'm sure that during perfect conditions, solar power may well provide enough button pushing strength to keep it over that line - but what happens when it is night time? There's not so much push then, is there! Remember, the moment it falls beneath that line, people start losing power, and your lovely summer time air-conditioned computer room suddenly goes dark. And hot.

So you have to start storing that power somehow. It's a complicated question, one that is solved in many different ways, none of them especially attractive, and can vary depending on available local resources.

Look, nuke power may not be ideal, and I don't overwhemlingly agree that it's the right answer for Australia, but remember this - far more radioactive material is released in to the atmosphere from burning current carbon based fossil fuels *every year* than was ever released in Chernobyl. The amount of waste generated by nuclear power is overwhelmingly smaller than almost any other means of generating power, and while it is indeed nasty stuff, it *is* a solvable problem. If it wasn't for you ultra-leftists, we'd melt the shit in to large glass blocks and drop it in to deep ocean trenches, where it won't do fuck all harm to anyone for a great deal of time. Before you screech "environmental pollution!!", go read up on it as a solution. It's quite viable.

Me? I'd rather see a distributed generation grid. Everyone has their own little solar panel here and there, which can feed unused current back in to the grid. Maybe you even get a discount off your next bill for your contribution! Of course, this mechanism absolutely requires a reliable backup - and as of yet, the only guaranteed source we've found (well, bar dams) is burning shit. Wind, solar, geo-thermal currents, all these sorts of things, they're great as an addition to the grid, to take some of the load, but they're not a replacement. The world will solve its energy problem once and for all when those crazy scientists finally crack the fusion question. Don't count on it in the next hundred years though.

‘it *is* a solvable problem. If it wasn't for you ultra-leftists, we'd melt the shit in to large glass blocks and drop it in to deep ocean trenches, where it won't do fuck all harm to anyone for a great deal of time. Before you screech "environmental pollution!!", go read up on it as a solution. It's quite viable’.

A solvable problem?, In Maralinga they solved it, they scooped and cleared ground zero and hit the sand with mega volts, 18months of British/Australian expert know-how delivering a disaster, glassifying the radioactive sands away, millions spent.
What a disaster, they scooped up gas cylinders with the sand and other assorted rubbish as they knew it would all burn and save the expense of carting two years of household waste back to Adelaide.

The scientists nearly blew themselves up and once the dust settled they were back to square one and the sand was back where it had come from.
They abandoned the effort and went home, apparently the clean up still needs to be attended to but no one cares because the government has said its been done.

There is no solution to global warming and due to the rapid rate at which it arrives there will be no time to adjust to the climate change. Already governments are trying to work out new ways that can exploit the threat so that they can benefit.

Australia will sell Uranium, surely to contribute more water vapour from cooling towers that will not cool in heat waves, pushing more of the worst GHG into the atmosphere.

So get used to it, there is no way that humans can save this planet, we do not value it, the world we created will end as resources can no longer support the ecosystem. The economy will suffer collapse as resources can no longer supply demand. It’s ending as we watch, and we will watch it end and we shall inherit real poverty, there is no alternative but to go on living in the world that we have made.

You are full of shit, Cameron.

Whenever alternative energy is mentioned here - even as a side issue -- a plethora of "new" contributors appear from nowhere to tell us:
NUKE ROCKS!

'Not ideal, but absolutely fucking necessary to power our clothes dryers and internet enabled frost-free refrigerators and our three plasma screens and our two airconditioners.'

Who are you working for, Cam??

You may want to edit the final comment in your article.

>>"As distinguished Canadian environmentalist and scientist David Suzuki put it at his National Press Club address last week, Howard's view on nukes & climate indicates he is an arsehole."

This is incorrect. David Suzuki was giving an example of the size of newspaper article the media would publish if he were to say something provocative (" ... if I were to say John Howard was an arsehole" ) compared to the size of the column printed if he had not said anything provocative.

It is also worth noting that the mining, transportation and processing of uranium before it is ready to used in a power plant uses a huge amount of energy/fuel, resulting in the emission of greenhouse gases (GHGs). The construction of a nuclear power plant will also require a lot of energy and therefore any plant we construct will start off with a large carbon debt.

If the same amount of money needed to build a nuclear power plant was poured into renewable energy sources we would be well on the way to stabilising Australia's GHG emissions.