Is IndyMedia disproportionately hostile to Isarel : Melbourne Indymedia

Content Analysis is a method used in qualitative research in which text (notes) are systematically examined by identifying and grouping themes and coding, classifying and developing categories.
http://www.cirem.org.uk/definitions.html

'Google' provides a handy mechanism for combining word and phrase combinations to make ready content analyses.

For example: How often is the term "human rights abuse" combined with the word "Israel" on IndyMedia as opposed to "Iran", "Cuba", "North Korea", etc?

Search term: Iran indymedia "human rights abuse"
Search term: Results 1 - 10 of about 131 for Iran indymedia "human rights abuse". (0.60 seconds)

That's nothing.
by IndyMedia is racist against Jews Friday May 14, 2004 at 07:40 AM

Actually, that's nothing. Look at this;

Search term: Nazi Germany Indymedia
Results 1 - 10 of about 33,100 for Nazi Germany Indymedia. (0.30 seconds)
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Nazi+Germany+Indymedia&btnG=Search&meta=

Search term: Nazi Israel Indymedia
Results 1 - 10 of about 36,100 for Nazi Israel Indymedia. (0.32 seconds)
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Nazi+Israel+Indymedia&btnG=Search&meta=

You are literally more likely to find the terms 'Nazi" and "Israel" together than "Nazi" and "Germany".

Gosh, whatever makes you think there's an anti-Israel bias?

I mean our readers <a href= 'http://sydney.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=41355&group=webcast'>
deserve to hear the truth about Israelis convicted of speeding and littering offences that the Zionist controlled Western media would otherwise suppress!

Why waste a trip to Google? Look at the front page of today's postings (screenshot here). Obviously the Arab world is having an (ahem) PR issue with the atrocious beheading of Nick Berg (see also Daniel Pearl). What better way to distract readers than a good ol' fashioned anti-Israel hate-fest?

Don't forget the Indymedia anti-Israel posting guidelines available online at http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2004/05/69607_comment.php

In the interests of supporting real science, rather than psuedo science, we should also look at a control group while performing this test. In this case, I'm using the internet as a whole.

Israel "human rights abuse" gets 6,660 results on google. (Now there's a spooky number)
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&edition=au&q=Israel+%22human+rights+abuse%22+&meta=

Libya "human rights abuse" gets 2,080 results on google.
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&edition=au&q=libya+%22human+rights+abuse%22+&meta=

Syria "human rights abuse" gets 2,370 results on google.
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&edition=au&q=Syria+%22human+rights+abuse%22+&btnG=Search&meta=

From that we can report that while comparing Israel to Libya and including Indymedia, the Libya query gets 5.8% of the responses Israel gets and 31.2% when Indymedia is left out.

Likewise while comparing Israel to Syria and including Indymedia, the Libya query gets 12.9% of the Responses Israel gets and 35.6% when Indymedia is left out.

In fact, either the whole world is slanted against Israel, or Israel is seen as at least three times worse than Libya and Syria.

Here are a couple more for fun:

Israel Troll Indymedia - 5,590 results
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&edition=au&q=israel+troll+indymedia&meta=

Australia Troll Indymedia - 863 results
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&edition=au&q=Australia+troll+indymedia&meta=

From this one we can tell that trolls can be associated with more Israel posts on Indymedia than Australia posts.

Oh, and if you do:
Israel "human rights abuses" zvinger indymedia, you get two responses
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&edition=au&q=Israel+%22human+rights+abuses%22+zvinger+indymedia&meta=

Libya "human rights abuses" zvinger indymedia, you get zero responses.
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&edition=au&q=libya+%22human+rights+abuses%22+zvinger+indymedia&meta=

Same with:
Syria "human rights abuses" zvinger indymedia - 0
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&edition=au&q=syria+%22human+rights+abuses%22+zvinger+indymedia&meta=

Iran "human rights abuses" zvinger indymedia - 0
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&edition=au&q=Iran+%22human+rights+abuses%22+zvinger+indymedia&meta=

North Korea "human rights abuses" zvinger indymedia - 0
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&edition=au&q=North+Korea+%22human+rights+abuses%22+zvinger+indymedia&btnG=Search&meta=

Cuba "human rights abuses" zvinger indymedia - 0
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&edition=au&q=Cuba+%22human+rights+abuses%22+zvinger+indymedia&meta=

Is zvinger disproportionately hostile to Isarel?

ratepayer-funded abuse is kosher! - right?
by What IMC was intended for Wednesday May 12, 2004 at 05:25 PM

by What IMC was intended for Wednesday May 12, 2004 at 02:15 AM

a) If racism was the issue, none of Chris Parsons'
ratepayer-funded posts supporting violence and murder
of Arabs would remain on the newswire.

b) Furthermore, the so-called "activists" behind zIonMC
would not describing his ratepayer-funded defamation, disinformation and promotion of violence and murder
as "original discussion" - would they?

c) Indymedia was not created as an outlet for
disinformation and hate - ratepayer-funded or otherwise.

_________________________________
Indymedia is a collective of independent media
organizations and hundreds of journalists offering
grassroots, NON-CORPORATE coverage. Indymedia was
born of the attempt to cover the PROTESTS AGAINST the
WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION in its meeting in Seattle
in 1999. It considers itself "a democratic media outlet
for the creation of RADICAL, ACCURATE, and
PASSIONATE tellings of TRUTH". There are currently
about over fifty autonomous Independent Media
Centers around the world.
http://www.carnegielibrary.org/subject/media/alt.html
_____________________________________

Like his right wing colleagues, David Frum of The
National Review is outraged that the mainstream press managed to recognize the diverse, broad-based nature
of the growing peace movement. As far as Frum is
concerned, anti-war activists are nothing more than anti-
American allies of Iraq:

"Listen to the speeches of the weekend marchers -- read their placards -- or, if you have a strong stomach,
look through THEIR 'INDYMEDIA.ORG' websites."
http://www.motherjones.com/news/warwatch/2003/01/we_263_03.html.
_______________________________________

"RADICAL, ACCURATE, and PASSIONATE tellings of TRUTH"

eg: Iraq Water Treatmment Vulnerabilities
eg: April Glaspie's tacit approval for the invasion of Kuwait as a pretext for killing Iraqis.
eg: hundreds of referenced facts contradicting the official 911 narrative
eg: the 1919 King-Crane Commission report on Zionism
eg: the actual map of Barak's so-called "generous offer" to the Palestinians.
etc

In your best Queen Elizabeth II voice ask yourself this,

Would we be in this "War on terror(Islam)" if there was A/ no oil and B/ no Israel in the Middle East?

See? That's like the brilliant lateral and mercurial thinking by Mrs Einstein that made Albert Einstein famous.

or "C" if Islam hadn't organised violent attacks on democracies everywhere, like Israel, the US, Australia, Spain. Should I go on?

CNN Israel human rights abuse
1 - 10 of about 58,100

CNN North Korea human rights abuse
1 - 10 of about 24,500

CNN Libya human rights abuse
Results 1 - 10 of about 13,600

CNN Syria human rights abuse
Results 1 - 10 of about 19,600

Does this mean CNN is Racist?

Of course not.

There are three factors in play.

One.

There is more focus on the Israel Palestine conflict than any other by a range of media organisations.

Two.

The other three countrys are repressive regimes while Israel has freedom of press and democracy, everybody knows the crap that go's on in places like North Korea but it's impossible to get infomation out from such a police/military state.

Three.

I will admit thou quite a majority of the articles on Indymedia about Israel are of questionable nature with most hiding behind a false anti-zionism critism while there true motives are of a anti-semite/racist nature.
Most of those are there because of the nature of open publishing and a lack direction to moderate these issues.

I actualy propose because the amount of discussion on the Israel and Palestine that it gets it's own newswire.

Although i dont like to compare numbers of deaths i will say, yet again tens of thousands of Africans die each year in civil wars and poverty but no one cares because there black.....

"... if Islam hadn't organised violent attacks on democracies everywhere, like Israel, the US, Australia, Spain. Should I go on?" (please do, it's funny)

OK drongo, prove me wrong.

What were the Islamic attacks on US, Australia, Spain etc etc before 1948?

Did they 'hate our freedoms' back then too?

It did it start after we took liberties?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did they 'hate our freedoms' back then too?

It did it start after we took liberties?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actualy it did originate before we started infering in there affairs, with a certain section of Moslems seeing modernisation/westernisation as being agaist Islam although with Iran progressing towards a demorcay at the time it could have been controled or servely curtailed but history didnt play out that way...

Our interference in middle east affairs can be linked directly with the growth in these extremists.

For god's sake.

Under your bizarre logic, criticism of a state can only indicate bias, never reasonably accurate comment. So if Indy wanted to avoid your kind of 'bias', the Indy collective would have to make a decision to post roughly the same number of 'positive' stories on Israel as the 'negative' ones. Never mind that this would in fact lead to a ridiculously distorted situation...

Under a more reasonable kind of logic, realistic (that is, reality-based) reporting entails accurate comments and stories, not from a 'mixing 50% negative opinions with 50% positive opinions will result in an approximation of the truth' approach.

You will have to find another method to propagate your Zionism.

We might care about Africa, but no-one will go there for a while, still too sensitive. Oooh, just thought of something.

"The single greatest thing any nation has done to improve the life expectancy, living standards, freedom and wealth of Africans was to kidnap their ancestors and take them to America to work as slaves."

Jesus, that is a tasty little statement isnt it. Is it wrong though?

Anyway, I would contend that the original investigation has merit as the term searched for was "human rights abuse" not just human rights. Even if it was, nobody talks about countries with great human rights records.

The current war on terror is based on CURRENT events, and your question about pre-1948 terror is a non-sequitur.

Having said that, if you really need evidence of Islamist Extremism before Israel, one can follow it all the way back to Mohammed who pioneered the beheading we all watched today.

As for what happened in 1948, as I recall, the State of Israel was declared and the Arabs invaded. I suppose you think Israel brought it on itself by daring to exist?

Extremism can also be found every part of life it's not somthing limited to one religion, actualy it can be found in every religion even if the religion doesnt permit it.

Zionism is nationalism plain and simple, so why does one form of nationalism have more critiques than say Serbian nationalism which has led to thousands of deaths or
Arab nationalism and African Nationalism were hundreds of thousands/millions have died?

Because most of the critiques are hiding behind
anti -zionism when there real motives are racist wither they know it or not.

What would you expect from a genuine independent site other than more criticism than say...from corporate and statist top down media?

To avoid unfounded charges of anti-semitism I like to quote from the " Not in my name" mob...oh and proven facts where possible.

And to balance all the colonialist authoritarian corporate and statist propaganda we may perhaps be ' spun' as having some bias. Hopefully over time with our anarchistic open wire policy this will be seen in context.

Reputation capital becomes more important over time it would appear and when good information ( finally) drives out bad. We should ( at some stage) know the truth, however horrible or disgusting...it may even be something different.

"The current war on terror is based on CURRENT events, and your question about pre-1948 terror is a non-sequitur"

Well what can I say here? Your ignorance just went intergalactic. You deserve the John Howard medal for refusing to submit to reason and logic despite the overwhelming evidence.

OK everyone, listen up, the CURRENT conflict between Islam and the west has nothing to do with the west assisting the Jews in stealing the Palestinians land in 1948. To suggest such is "non sequitur".

You heard it first here folks.

I can hardly wait for the Nazis next pronouncement.

ALP fights to find a sense of middle ground

Parliament won't sit for the next two weeks. When it resumes on November 11 - appropriately, Armistice Day - the House of Representatives is set to debate an issue it has not debated, as an issue in itself, for at least 20 years, more likely far longer. That issue is Israel's military occupation in 1967 of what used to be Palestine and what the UN might do to help restore Palestine's borders and guarantee Israel's security.

In the context of all the misery and murder lately in the Middle East, not least in Israel and the occupied territories, you might think such a debate timely. Not so, say some people. One politician in particular is incensed that the "shocking" notice of motion is going ahead. He has sought to have it withdrawn and the debate killed. So far he has failed.

The politician is Labor's Michael Danby, MP for the marginal inner-city seat of Melbourne Ports, with its big Jewish vote, and unarguably the Australian Parliament's most unambiguous and insidious defender of the Israeli Government. Danby's Sydney colleague, Julia Irwin, who has one of the safest Labor seats in the country, thinks Danby is a "bully". She said yesterday: "I won't be stood over by him."

It is Irwin who gave notice, a month ago, of her private member's motion that Danby thinks so shocking. That was September 25. Last Monday Irwin's proposal was selected, by the usual cross-party committee that decides such things, for parliamentary debate on November 11. Danby knew nothing of this until next morning. That's when he went, as was later described by Labor's chief whip, Janice Crosio, as "ballistic".

As one of Labor's two deputy whips in the House, Danby should have been at the Monday selection meeting. Instead he was at lunch with Richard Butler, once chief of staff to Gough Whitlam, the Keating government's UN ambassador in the mid-'90s and, in the late '90s, former head of the UN special commission on Iraqi disarmament. Thus Danby missed the committee's discussion on Irwin's proposal. There were, and have been, several unseemly scenes since.

Given that Micheal Danby's electorate is Melbourne Ports, does anyone else find it odd that this report appeared in SMH, but not its sister-publication The Age?

Does anyone find it odd that critiquess and reports of non-Israeli attrocities are never met with the barrage of hatred, defamation, disinformation and abuse that Zion-lovers produce day and night here at zIonMC?

After heaping ridicule on Zvinger's post, Regular then says;

"....I will admit thou quite a majority of the articles on Indymedia about Israel are of questionable nature with most hiding behind a false anti-zionism critism while there true motives are of a anti-semite/racist nature. ...."

"..of questionable nature..." viz "yes, they are racist"

If CNN has a racist bias against Libya (as you suggest), then clearly, Regular, IndyMedia IS racist.

Why bullshit about it?

How zIonMC Works
by statisticaly, zionMC is racist, yes Saturday May 15, 2004 at 06:47 AM

Does anyone find it odd that critiques and reports of non-Israeli attrocities are never met with the barrage of hatred, defamation, disinformation and abuse that Zion-lovers produce day and night here at zIonMC?

if you dont like indymedia, you can always go to little green footballs. Unlike indymedia, they only accept pro-israel posters. Indymedia is a global justice site: israel is vicious racist state. If israel changes: observes intenational law: removes the squatters, sues for peace, then indymedia will be israels friend too

If you devoted more attention to countries that committed bigger atrocities than Israel, perhaps you would be taken seriously.

As long as you single out Israel, the only Jewish State in the whole world, and ignore injustice of far greater magnitude (Iran? Syria? Palestinian Authority? Lebanon? Sudan anyone?) your agenda is totally obvious and it stinks.

With "friends" like this...

"the only Jewish State in the whole world", repeated the little Nazi for the umpteenth time, without explaining why people of the Jewish FAITH had any right whatosever to steal the Palestinian homeland in the first place.

Can we have a Christian Staat too?

and a Scientologist Staat?

and a Wicca Staat?

and a Raelian Staat?

Would it be OK for China to partition Australia to make way for some of these States, and can they have nuclear arsenals and be recipients of Chinese military welfare payments?

==
Because most of the critiques are hiding behind
anti -zionism when there real motives are racist wither they know it or not.
==

So now the assumption is that people do not know their own minds when they post their views about Israel's military and political policies?

You know these peoples mind and hearts can can make this assertion can you?

Are you a god?

Or perhaps your living evidence of one problem facing the zionist movement today...the lack of abulity to mind read!

What if I told you I was Jewish and still an anti-zionist?

What if I told you there are many thousands of Jewish people around the globe who feel the same way I do?
Are we all racists too?

Are you Jewish?
Are you a non Jewish Israeli citizen?
Are you Palestinian?

Are any of the anti-zionist views being expressed about the place upsetting to YOU personally..are they specifically vilifying you as a single human?

Why are **you personally** defending Israel?

Are you suggesting that people who are not Jewish dont have enough brain power to draw conclusions based on what they see and observe regarding the actions of Israeli leadership and political 'consititution'?

Are you saying that all people that express dissatisfaction with the Zionist hijacking of Israel and the world Jewry arent able to see with their own eyes the 'bigger picture' and make common sense based correlations regarding unrest in the ME and the *nature* of the establishment of the state of Israel?

Are we all just dumb drones to you huh?

You sure?

Saying what you are here, would be like me asserting that your so pro Zionism and Sharon because your projecting your racist hate of Palestinians...you cant possibly know your own mind..your so brainwashed!(sic).

Projection is a common enough psychological phenomenon and human process....disguse your own guilt by projecting on to others what you hold inside your own head.

I DO know my own mind thanks very much.

I DO know that I dont hate people who are Jewish.

I am anti-zionist......tuff...if your not directly involved in the struggle in some way then its none of your business!

If your not happy with the views being expressed here..well go be a self accountable and responsible little person and just dont log in..they wont affect you any more!
Simple no?

LH

Ladyhawke

is taking place in iraq, and it seems to be FOR israel:

see this long article

http://www.thornwalker.com/ditch/snieg_conc1.htm

and of course:

Iraq under Saddam Hussein did not pose a threat to the United States but it did to Israel, which is one reason why Washington invaded the Arab country, according to a speech made by a member of a top-level White House intelligence group.

IPS uncovered the remarks by Philip Zelikow, who is now the executive director of the body set up to investigate the terrorist attacks on the United States in September 2001 -- the 9/11 commission -- in which he suggests a prime motive for the invasion just over one year ago was to eliminate a threat to Israel, a staunch U.S. ally in the Middle East.

Zelikow's casting of the attack on Iraq as one launched to protect Israel appears at odds with the public position of President George W. Bush and his administration, which has never overtly drawn the link between its war on the regime of former president Hussein and its concern for Israel's security.
etc
http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=23083

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ladyhawke says

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I was going to write a huge essay about this but i better though of it as a waist of time.

Why are people obsessed with zionism be they Jewish or not , compared to the many other nationalisms who commit the same acts.

It just seems that year after year is waisted talking about this issue and go's round and round and round and round in circles.

It seems these wars and disputes are somehow being minipulated to last forever as to distract from the bigger picture.
Ever watch 1984 it could be happening right now;(

"..Why are people obsessed with zionism be they Jewish or not..."

Are you kidding?

It's because they ARE Jews. Isn't that obvious???

They're not obsessed with Zionism - they're racist Jew baiters using Zionism as a pretext for bashing Jews.

Wake up, for god's sake.

"Jew baiters using Zionism as a pretext for bashing Jews. "

or Jews using Zionism as a pretext for invading Palestine?

or Jews using anti-semitism as a pretext for Zionism?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Chris Parsons / Crisco up your butthole / zvinger / spinifex / Rebecca &/or Richard Wolstonecroft / ed fusco / popcorn / lesbian and proud / zero point seven per cent / Robert Rabil / D. Thomas / (Groucho) Marx was right / the Silent Majority / Attention K-Mart Shoppers / Nazihunter/ Dr Bryce Gemmell (Ret) / Isis Khalil / wrg / Elspeth / Clay Walker / Simple Simon / Taxback / (there are so many these days I only respond when it tickles my fancy)

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2004/04/66894_comment.php#67132

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2004/03/65247_comment.php#65325

" Why are people obsessed with zionism be they Jewish or not , compared to the many other nationalisms who commit the same acts."

===

Its a fair statement to say ' shouldnt we look at everyone'....I'm not disagreeing with that. I for one, do.

The reason zionism rates such focus, well, I can only speak for myself...

I know this to be true, because I have been so outspoken, that if I were to question and act in opposition to the politics and social policies of the Indonesian gov...or Kenyan gov..or Serbian gov or the Sien Fenne or Australian governments....not one person acuses me of being a racist let, alone Anti Irish, Anti-African or Anti Serbian or Anti-Aussie.

Nor do these people or political groups enter my country and demand specific laws be created that in effect, subvert my nations political sytem and media in the effort to project a particular political view, consistant with their interests, drowning out or making it illegal to express opposing viewpoints. These groups do not involve themselves in my right to choose or freedom of expression in my own nation.

If zionism is indeed a political point of view, which is being claimed by zionists world over...then it, by nature, has nothing to do with religous or racial vilification. Yet laws abound which protect zionism specifically, laws that are designed to silence dissent and are based purely on religous doctrine and racial affiliation.
This is a double standard and a manipulation of governments let alone my personal rights.

A more personal reason...yes..it is because the Palestinians are still dying and living under Israeli/Zionist aparthied ( the Jewish Agency). And while some people are 'tired of hearing it' and want to sit comfortably in ignorance of that , the fate of the Palestinian people depends on people just like those being reminded THEY STILL EXIST. Everything else has been taken from them apart from that.

And no, in saying that I do NOT automatically mean I approve of the current violence. Only that under the zionist apartheid, an entire race will ultimately vanish if it is permitted to by those who have the luxury of changing channels.

Lastly... Because I want to be free and live in a society that is not a police state, one that respects international law, human rights, equality and freedom of choice and I dont feel I can expect that right unless I am willing to stand accountable and defend the rights of others seeking the same goal. I fight political abuses of power here in this country...to me, supporting anti-zionism is just an expansion of that global human rights perspective.

LH

So Palestinians are "an entire race" now, Lady? The evil Zionists' campaign of genocide is going well, innit? - with the Palestinian population in the territories on the increase?

And while you're at it, why should there be an Australian staat?

And what do you think of China's occupation of the Tibetan homeland? Oh that's right, China don't have any Jooz.

Or the 22 muslims staats?

What gave Islam the right to colonise the Middle East and West Asia? What right did the Romans have to enter the Jewish homeland and displace Jews? What right does Leon Carter have to live on stolen Aboriginal land?

Here's for an end to the Occupations (of Lebanon by Syria, of Tibet by China, of the Sudan, of South Sahara by Morroco)

"the only Jewish State in the whole world", repeated the little Nazi for the umpteenth time, without explaining why people of the Jewish FAITH had any right whatosever to steal the Palestinian homeland in the first place.

That's why the little nazi and his friend nigel can't deal with the CONTENT of the Trumman archive documents on the recognition of Israel, or President Woodrow Wilson's 1919 King-Crane Commission Report, or Herzl's 1887 eugenic, divisive and racist plan to discourage, hinder and reverse the process of Jewish assimilation. Much easier to play the race card and dehumanize goyim for Jehovah - isn't it nazi?

Can we have a Christian Staat too?

and a Scientologist Staat?

and a Wicca Staat?

and a Raelian Staat?

Would it be OK for China to partition Australia to make way for some of these States, and can they have nuclear arsenals and be recipients of Chinese military welfare payments?
______________________________________

Answer the questions.

Including this one:

___________________
Does anyone find it odd that critiques and reports of non-Israeli attrocities are never met with the barrage of hatred, defamation, disinformation and abuse that Zion-lovers produce day and night here at zIonMC?
_________________

Talk about...
by The Delusions of Leon Carter Monday May 17, 2004 at 09:25 AM

So much for debate.

You say that Judaism is a FAITH, yet Herzl's plans were eugenic? If Judaism isn't a race, how does that work?

I thought you would've supported any efforts by yids to stifle assimilation - it's harder to bait them when they breed with the dumb goyim who by law of jehovah they're supposed to kill, eh?

//Does anyone find it odd that critiques and reports of non-Israeli attrocities are never met with the barrage of and abuse that Zion-lovers produce day and night here at zIonMC?

You live in a fantasy world, Leon, you sad little man. You wouldn't know anything about "hatred, defamation and disinformation", would you Leon? Maybe you should find yourself a girl.

Same old same old...

1) "the only Jewish State in the whole world", repeated the little Nazi for the umpteenth time, without explaining why people of the Jewish FAITH had any right whatosever to steal the Palestinian homeland in the first place. "

Don't even get me started on whose land it is...
Suffice it to say, if there truly was a Palestinian homeland prior to Israel, can you name a SINGLE Palestinian leader prior to Yasser Arafat?

Enough said.

2) "Can we have a Christian Staat too? " etc. etc.

Umm... They exist. There are also Muslim states as well that don't even ALLOW Jews in (cough...Saudi Arabia) at all. Of course I don't hear you complaining about those. Well perhaps you didn't know? Now you do. I look forward to you not singling out Israel (though I won't hold my breath). As I said before (and was ignored by the same trolls it seems):

If you devoted more attention to countries that committed bigger atrocities than Israel, perhaps you would be taken seriously.

3) Heaps of the usual about "why does criticism of Israel attract so much argument"?

Bottom line:
As long as you single out Israel, the only Jewish State in the whole world, and ignore injustice of far greater magnitude (Iran? Syria? Palestinian Authority? Lebanon? Sudan anyone?) your agenda is totally obvious and it stinks.

So much for debate?

The CONTENT of the Trumman archive documents on the recognition of Israel?

So much for debate.

President Woodrow Wilson's 1919 King-Crane Commission Report re: Zionism and the Wishes of the People of Palestine?

So much for debate.

Theodore Herzl's 1887 eugenic, divisive and racist plan to discourage, hinder and reverse the process of Jewish assimilation? (Yes - I'll post the evidence if you want - just ask)

So much for debate.

Much easier to play the race card and dehumanize goyim for Jehovah - isn't it nazi?

answer the questions, or I'll repeat them AGAIN.

Easier to ignore the content of my response and play cut and paste, isn't it nazi?

"Just one more personal word on the question of partition. I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. Apart from practical consideration, my awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain - especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state. We are no longer Jews of the Maccabee period. A return to a nation in the political sense of the word would be equivalent to turning away from the spiritualization of our community which we owe to the genius of our prophets."
- Albert Einstein, Out of My Later Years, p263

"...the greatest impediment in the path of the Jews to an independent national existence is that they [Jews] do not feel its need. Not only that, but they [Jews] go so far as to deny its authenticity.

We must prove that the misfortunes of the Jews are due, above all, to their lack of desire for national independence; and that this desire must be awakened and maintained

intermission:
===================
Anti-Semitic calls in France staged

The head of French friends of Israel’s Likud Party
admitted staging anti-Semitic phone calls to himself.

http://www.jta.org/brknews.asp?id=107634
====================

in time if they do not wish to be subjected forever to disgraceful existence -- in a word, we must prove that they must become a nation.
-Leon Pinsker, Auto Emancipation, 1882

"I believe in the ascent of man to higher and yet higher grades of civilization; but I consider this ascent to be desperately slow. Were we to wait till aver age humanity 'had become as charitably inclined as was Lessing when he wrote "Nathan the Wise," we should wait beyond our day, beyond the days of our children, of our grandchildren, and of our great-grandchildren. But the world's spirit comes to our aid in another way.
[...]

The unfortunate Jews are now carrying the seeds of Anti-Semitism into England; they have already introduced it into America.
[...]
Assimilation, by which I understood not only external conformity in dress, habits, customs, and language, but also identity of feeling and manner--assimilation of Jews could be effected only by intermarriage. But the need for mixed marriages would have to be felt by the majority; their mere recognition by law would certainly not suffice.

The Hungarian Liberals, who have just given legal sanction to mixed marriages, have made a remarkable mistake which one of the earliest cases clearly illustrates; a baptized Jew married a Jewess. At the same time the struggle to obtain the present form of marriage accentuated distinctions between Jews and Christians, thus hindering rather than aiding the fusion of races.
[...]

My happier coreligionists will not believe me till Jew-baiting teaches them the truth; for the longer Anti-Semitism lies in abeyance the more fiercely will it break out. The infiltration of immigrating Jews, attracted to a land by apparent security, and the ascent in the social scale of native Jews, combine powerfully to bring about a revolution. Nothing is plainer than this rational conclusion.

... I wish from the outset to prevent....the mistaken notion that my project, if realized, would in the least degree injure property now held by Jews. ... It might more reasonably be objected that I am giving a handle to anti-Semitism when I say we are a people--one people; that I am hindering the assimilation of Jews where it is about to be consummated, and endangering it where it is an accomplished fact, insofar as it is possible for a solitary writer to hinder, or endanger anything. This objection will be especially brought forward in France. It will probably also be made in other countries, but I shall answer only the French Jews beforehand, because these afford the most striking example of my point.

However much I may worship personality-powerful individual personality in statesmen, inventors, artists, philosophers, or leaders, as well as the collective personality of a historic group of human beings, which we call a nation--however much I may worship personality, I do not regret its disappearance. Whoever can, will, and must perish, let him perish. But the distinctive nationality of Jews neither can, will, nor must be destroyed. It cannot be destroyed, because external enemies consolidate it. It will not be destroyed; this is shown during two thousand years of appalling suffering. It must not be destroyed, and that, as a descendant of numberless Jews who refused to despair, I am trying once more to prove in this pamphlet. Whole branches of Judaism may wither and fall, but the trunk will remain.

Hence, if all or any of the French Jews protest against this scheme on account of their own "assimilation," my answer is simple: The whole thing does not concern them at all. They are Jewish Frenchmen, well and good! This is a private affair for the Jews alone. The movement towards the organization of the State I am proposing would, of course, harm Jewish Frenchmen no more than it would harm the "assimilated" of other countries. It would, on the contrary, be distinctly to their advantage. For they would no longer be disturbed in their "chromatic function," as Darwin puts it, but would be able to assimilate in peace, because the present Anti- Semitism would have been stopped for ever. They would certainly be credited with being assimilated to the very depths of their souls, if they stayed where they were after the new Jewish State, with its superior institutions, had become a reality.

The "assimilated" would profit even more than Christian citizens by the departure of faithful Jews; for they would be rid of the disquieting, incalculable, and unavoidable rivalry of a Jewish proletariat, driven by poverty and political pressure from place to place, from land to land. This floating proletariat would become stationary. Many Christian citizens--whom we call Anti-Semites--now offer determined resistance to the immigration of foreign Jews. Jewish citizens cannot do this, although it affects them far more directly; for on them they feel first of all the keen competition of individuals carrying on similar branches of industry, who, in addition, either introduce Anti-Semitism where it does not exist, or intensify it where it does. The "assimilated" give expression to this secret grievance in "philanthropic" undertakings. They organize emigration societies for wandering Jews. There is a reverse to the picture which would be comic, if it did not deal with human beings. For some of these charitable institutions are created not for, but against, persecuted Jews; they are created to despatch these poor creatures just as fast and far as possible. And thus, many an apparent friend of the Jews turns out, on careful inspection, to be nothing more than an Anti-Semite of Jewish origin, disguised as a philanthropist.

[...]
They have, of course, done harm also. The transportation of Anti-Semitism to new districts, which is the inevitable consequence of such artificial infiltration, seems to me to be the least of these evils. Far worse is the circumstance that unsatisfactory results tend to cast doubts on intelligent men.

[...]
No human being is wealthy or powerful enough to transplant a nation from one habitation to another. An idea alone can achieve that and this idea of a State may have the requisite power to do so. The Jews have dreamt this kingly dream all through the long nights of their history. "Next year in Jerusalem" is our old phrase. It is now a question of showing that the dream can be converted into a living reality.

[...]
The departure of the Jews will involve no economic disturbances, no crises, no persecutions; in fact, the countries they abandon will revive to a new period of prosperity. There will be an inner migration of Christian citizens into the positions evacuated by Jews. The outgoing current will be gradual, without any disturbance, and its initial movement will put an end to Anti-Semitism.

[...]
Although I speak of reason, I am fully aware that reason alone will not suffice. Old prisoners do not willingly leave their cells.

<i>the only Jewish State in the whole world", repeated the little Nazi for the umpteenth time, without explaining why people of the Jewish FAITH had any right whatosever to steal the Palestinian homeland in the first place</i>

So when was there a Palestinian homeland again? (Can't wait to hear this 'un!) You need to read some history, dude.

Old hat Jimbowe.

Got anything new?

Got anything real?

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2004/04/66955.php

...could you repeat it? There was a Palestinian homeland...WHEN?

Canaanite Kings

Arad

http://www.ccel.org/c/calvin/comment3/comm_vol06/htm/ii.xxviii.htm

King Jabin of Hazor

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2001/20010423.htm

King Zimrida of Sidon

http://www.made-in-lebanon.com/cedar/country/phoenicia/appendices.html

http://holycall.com/biblemaps/sidon.htm

Philistine Kings

(The historic Philistines were a people that inhabited

the southern coast of Canaan around the time of the

arrival of the Israelites, ...They occupied the five

cities of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath, along

the coastal strip of southwestern Canaan, ...The

Philistine cities were ruled by seranim, "lords", who

acted together for the common good, though to what

extent they had a sense of a "nation" is not clear

without literary sources...and their history is of

individual cities, and not of a people.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistine

King Achis of Geth (Samuel Chapter 27)

I called up the kings of the country. . .: Ba'lu, king

of Tyre, Manasseh, king of Judah, Qaushgabi, king of

Edom, Musuri, king of Moab, Sil-Bel, king of Gaza,

Metinti, king of Ashkelon, Ikausu, king of Ekron, . . .

Ahimilki, king of Ashdod. . .

http://www.phoenixdatasystems.com/goliath/c7/c7e.htm

Amorite Kings

(1) Adoni-Zedec of Jerusalem

(2) Hoham of Hebron.

(3) Piram of Jarmuth

(4) Japhia of Lachish

(5) Debir of Eglon.

http://www.berean-houston.org/Library/Joshua/Lesson11.htm

*** Palestinian or "indigenous" leadership has existed throughout history and continues to do so today ***

Some of Palestines invaders...

Hebrews

Assyrians, Persians & Greeks

Romans

Byzantine Era

Early Arab Period

Crusaders

Mamluks

Ottomans

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Palestinian leaders during the British Mandate

Husayn ibn `Ali - http://reference.allrefer.com/

encyclopedia/H/Husaynib.html

Hajj Amin al Husayni - http://www.stanford.edu/class/

history187b/arhicom.htm

The U.S. Anti-Defamation League wants a U.S. senator to retract remarks insisting that the Iraq war was motivated by "President Bush's policy to secure Israel."

In an editorial published in the Charleston Post and Courier last week, Sen. Ernest Hollings said Bush invaded Iraq to win Jewish votes by protecting Israel.

ADL Director Abraham Foxman wrote to Hollings that the comments were reminiscent of anti-Semitic canards of a Jewish conspiracy to control the government. "Regardless of whether one feels that the war on Iraq was justified, the charge that it's being fought... on behalf of Israel grossly misrepresents the legitimate U.S. interests involved," Foxman desperately asserted.

Bush Wanted to Invade Iraq to Help Israel

By Sen. Ernest F. Hollings

Sen. Ernest "Fritz" Hollings, a native of Charleston, has represented South Carolina in the U.S. Senate since 1966. A Democrat, he served as governor of South Carolina from 1959-1963. He is a graduate of The Citadel and the University of South Carolina School of Law.

The president’s war has backfired, and we’re creating more terrorism than we’re stopping.

With 760 dead in Iraq and over 3,000 maimed for life, home folks continue to argue why we are in Iraq — and how to get out. Now everyone knows what was not the cause.

Even President Bush acknowledges that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9-11. Listing the 45 countries wherein al-Qaida was operating on Sept. 11 (70 cells in the United States), the State Department did not list Iraq.

Richard Clarke, in "Against All Enemies," tells how the United States had not received any threat of terrorism for 10 years from Saddam at the time of our invasion. On page 231, John McLaughlin of the CIA verifies this to Paul Wolfowitz. In 1993 President Clinton responded to Saddam's attempt on the life of President George Herbert Walker Bush by putting a missile down Saddam's intelligence headquarters in Baghdad. Not a big kill, but Saddam got the message — monkey around with the United States and a missile lands on his head.

Of course there were no weapons of mass destruction. Israel's intelligence, Mossad, knows what's going on in Iraq. They are the best. They have to know. Israel's survival depends on knowing. Israel long since would have taken us to the weapons of mass destruction if there were any or if they had been removed.

With Iraq no threat, why invade a sovereign country? The answer: President Bush's policy to secure Israel.

Led by Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz and Charles Krauthammer, for years there has been a domino school of thought that the way to guarantee Israel's security is to spread democracy in the area. Wolfowitz wrote: "The United States may not be able to lead countries through the door of democracy, but where that door is locked shut by a totalitarian deadbolt, American power may be the only way to open it up." And on another occasion: Iraq as "the first Arab democracy ... would cast a very large shadow, starting with Syria and Iran but across the whole Arab world."

Three weeks before invasion President Bush stated: "A new regime in Iraq would serve as a dramatic and inspiring example for freedom for other nations in the region."

Every president since 1947 has made a futile attempt to help Israel negotiate peace. But no leadership has surfaced amongst the Palestinians that can make a binding agreement. President Bush realized his chances at negotiation were no better. He came to office imbued with one thought — re-election.

Bush felt tax cuts would hold his crowd together and spreading democracy in the Mideast to secure Israel would take the Jewish vote from the Democrats. You don't come to town and announce your Israel policy is to invade Iraq. But George W. Bush, as stated by former Secretary Paul O'Neill and others, started laying the groundwork to invade Iraq days after inauguration. And, without any Iraq connection to 9-11, within weeks he had the Pentagon outlining a plan to invade Iraq. He was determined.

President Bush thought taking Iraq would be easy. Wolfowitz said it would take only seven days. Cheney believed we would be greeted as liberators. But Cheney's man, Chalabi, made a mess of the debathification of Iraq by dismissing Republican Guard leadership and Sunni leaders who soon joined with the insurgents.

Worst of all, we tried to secure Iraq with too few troops. In 1966 in South Vietnam with a population of 16,543,000, Gen. William C. Westmoreland, with 535,000 U.S. troops was still asking for more. In Iraq with a population of 24,683,000, Gen. John Abizaid with only 135,000 troops can barely secure the troops, much less the country.

If the troops are there to fight, they are too few. If there to die, they are too many. To secure Iraq we need more troops — at least 100,000 more. The only way to get the United Nations back in Iraq is to make the country secure. Once back, the French, Germans and others will join with the United Nations to take over.

With President Bush's domino policy in the Mideast gone awry, he keeps shouting "Terrorism War." Terrorism is a method, not a war. We don't call the Crimean War with the Charge of the Light Brigade the Cavalry War. Or World War II the Blitzkrieg War.

There is terrorism in Ireland against the Brits. There is terrorism in India and in Pakistan. In the Mideast terrorism is a separate problem to be defeated by diplomacy and negotiation, not militarily. Here, might does not make right — right makes might. Acting militarily, we have created more terrorism than we have eliminated

...the brave racist punk, one hand on his dick and the other typing bravely. I know a ten-year-old Jew girl who would kick your punk ass.

...with the old cluestick. But you should really do your own research, that way it'll stay in the poor old noodle longer.

The PHILISTINES weren't even ARABS! Neither were the CAANANITES!

Arabs didn't come into the region until Mohammed the Pedophile's time a few thousand years later.

"Philistine", the precurser of "Palestine" isn't even an Arab word.

Dumb ass.

"...the greatest impediment in the path of the Jews to an independent national existence is that they [Jews] do not feel its need. Not only that, but they [Jews] go so far as to deny its authenticity.

We must prove that the misfortunes of the Jews are due, above all, to their [Jews] lack of desire for national independence; and that this desire must be awakened and maintained

intermission:
===================
Anti-Semitic calls in France staged

The head of French friends of Israel’s Likud Party
admitted staging anti-Semitic phone calls to himself.

http://www.jta.org/brknews.asp?id=107634
====================

in time if they do not wish to be subjected forever to disgraceful existence -- in a word, we must prove that they must become a nation.
-Leon Pinsker, Auto Emancipation, 1882
_______________________________

yes....................

"The PHILISTINES weren't even ARABS! Neither were the CAANANITES! "

Oh they weren't?

What were they then?

What happened when Abraham led the Jews into "Israel" (Palestine), did the natives just run away or did you wipe them out?

Have you developed a genetic racial profile to detect non-Jews Adolf Jim?

I am sure I can trust a Jews answer on these matters can't I BORING LYING Jim?

Barbary Pirates, 16th - 19th CENTURIES: The ISLAMIC states of Tripolitania (Libya), Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco, which were semi-independent under ISLAMIC Turkish rule, derived revenue from large-scale piracy on EUROPEAN & AMERICAN shipping. "European powers launched punitive expeditions against them, but generally relied on PAYMENT OF TRIBUTE as a means of protection. The Americans joined in this system" until the Tripolitan War ended this piracy in the region in 1830. Boy have times changed, eh? Ever wonder where: "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of TRIPOLI..." or the word "BARBARIANS" came from? Arab muslimes are not new at this.

Jimbob was going to tell us about how the "original" inhabitants of Palestine just "died out" or generously moved on to make way for the Chosen People. Just like those nice aborigines did for us here in Australia. See, this proves that God really is on our side. If those dirty raghead A-rabs think God is on their side, then BOY!!!, they really are deluded.

I don't know how he knows this or what mind-boogling evidence he will provide to support his claims about those Palestinian imposters, but I tell ya what, I bet Jimbob knows stuff that no-one knows!

I just love hearing those "terra nullius" stories, don't you? And they're just so convenient and handy for brigands don't you think?

Yoo-hoo Jimbob?

Declaration On Zionism
And The State Of Israel
From Neturei Karta on behalf of Torah true Jews to the
Palestinian People and the Arab and Muslim world.
5-17-4

A statement delivered by Rabbi Yisroel D. Weiss of Neturei Karta Int. at a rally in Times Square, New York City on May 14, 2004, organized by many major American-Muslim organizations in commemoration of Al-Nakba Day (The day of the creation of the 'State' of Israel) --

Torah true Jews mourn the fifty six years of the illegitimate State of Israel in Palestine and express their solidarity and deep sympathy with the Palestinian People in their suffering and struggle against the Zionist oppression.

The practical outcome of Zionism in the form of the State known as 'Israel', is completely alien to Judaism and the Jewish Faith and has been and continues to be the cause of untold suffering and bloodshed both Jewish and non-Jewish.

With a continuing chain of events over more than half a century, ranging from the withholding of the 'right of return' from the Palestinian refugees and leading currently to such issues as the 'wall' and 'extra judicial assassinations', Zionism has proven to be one of the greatest desecrations of God's name and the Jewish religion.

The Jewish Religion is a spiritual belief handed down through the generations for thousands of years. It is a basic part of the Jewish belief, to accept willingly, the Heavenly decree of exile affecting the Jewish People and not to try and fight against it or to end it by our own hands.

In practical terms, exile for us means that Jews must be loyal subjects of the countries in which they live and not attempt to rule over the established indigenous populations of those countries. The Torah certainly forbids us to form a State of our own. This applies whether in the world at large or in Palestine.

The Zionist movement, however, which was founded approximately 100 years ago based on secular nationalistic aims, was a complete abandonment of our religious teachings and faith in general, and in particular an abandonment of our approach to our state of exile and to the peoples among whom we live.

The ideology of Zionism is secular and atheistic and advocates taking the law into ones own hands by trying to force the outcome in the form of a State. Irrespective of the cost in life and property to anyone who stands in the way. The Zionist ideology is the antithesis of Jewish religious values and is an embarrassment and a disgrace to the Jewish People.

One must add to the wrongs of Zionism and the state of "Israel", the fact, that in order to achieve an ill conceived nationalistic ambition, a shocking contravention of the Jewish Religious values of natural and humanitarian justice was committed, in setting up an illegitimate sectarian regime in Palestine, completely against the wishes and over the heads of the established population, the Palestinians, both Arab and God fearing Jew. This inevitably had to be based on illegal confiscation of property and loss of life.

According to the Torah and Jewish faith, the present Palestinian. Arab claim to rule in Palestine is right and just. The Zionist claim is wrong and criminal.
Our attitude to the 'State of Israel' is that the whole concept is flawed and illegitimate. It is a tragedy for the Palestinians and also for the Jewish people.

Furthermore, the Zionists have made themselves to appear as the representatives and spokespeople of all Jews, thus, with their actions, arousing animosity against the Jews. But, their claim is simply not true! Zionism is not Judaism. Zionists cannot speak in the name of Jews.

Finally, we stress that the connection between Arab and Jew goes right back into ancient history. Mostly the relationship was friendly and mutually beneficial. Historically, the situation frequently was that when Jews were being persecuted in Europe they found refuge in the various Arab and Muslim countries. Our attitude to Muslims and Arabs can only be one of friendliness and respect.

We are awaiting the annulment of Zionism and the peaceful, speedy, dismantling of the State of Israel, and would welcome the opportunity to dwell in peace in the holy land under Palestinian rule.

Ultimately we await the revelation of God's glory through out the world, when all mankind will recognize the one God and serve Him together in harmony and happiness. AMEN

RABBI COHEN - London, U.K.
RABBI WEISS - New York, U.S.A.
RABBI HIRSH - Jerusalem, Palestine.

*What happened when Abraham led the Jews into "Israel" (Palestine), did the natives just run away or did you wipe them out?*

Boy, if ignorance is bliss, you must be a very happy little anti-semite. Don't you have a history class to study for or something?

Oh, I forgot...you don't study. You just repeat lies.

*Jimbob was going to tell us about how the "original" inhabitants of Palestine just "died out" or generously moved on to make way for the Chosen People. Just like those nice aborigines did for us here in Australia. See, this proves that God really is on our side. If those dirty raghead A-rabs think God is on their side, then BOY!!!, they really are deluded.

I don't know how he knows this or what mind-boogling evidence he will provide to support his claims about those Palestinian imposters, but I tell ya what, I bet Jimbob knows stuff that no-one knows!

I just love hearing those "terra nullius" stories, don't you? And they're just so convenient and handy for brigands don't you think?

Yoo-hoo Jimbob?*

Oh man, this is like shooting fish in a barrel. You really think those early inhabitants were Arab Muslims?

(Jim reaches for cluestick.)

Poor baby.

(Whack!)

yes.

Why?

Could it be the way the appologists try to deny everything unfavourable?

Hey Jimbob, are you going to just stand there with your tongue hanging out and your pants around your ankles beating off or will you try to answer the questions?

My money's on Jimbob the pervert rather than Jimbob the intellectual.

PS Who said anything about Arabs and Muslims? I said that the people we now know as Palestinians were there long before your psychotic cult and still are. Try arguing against that FACT Einstein.

You're saying the Palestinians aren't Arabs?

Good one!

Wassup Jimbob? Your responses keep getting shorter and more evasive and distracted. And you won't answer any question I have posed for you. Why is that? Are you running out of steam champ?

"You're saying the Palestinians aren't Arabs?"

Where did I say that Jimbob?

I'm not fond of the idea of racially profiling Palestinians. I reckon that's more of a job for someone from the psychotic eugenic cult of zion. That would be you, so why don't you share your thoughts with us on the genetic provenance of Palestinians? It's obvious you're dying to tell us.

Anyway, since you asked, I will offer this.

The archeological record in Palestine stretches back many thousands of years. Numerous societies certainly existed there well before the inception of the psychotic eugenic cult of zion.

So, aside from the fairy tales from the Judeo-Christian biblical tomes, what evidence can you provide that the people living in Palestine when the psychotic eugenic cult of zions genocidal invasion began last century were not the same people who have been there for those many thousands of years?

Sure empires, laws, customs and even religious psychoses change over time but so what? Are they not the same people? Does it lessen them in any way? Must we all subscribe to the time warp/hallucination induced by 2000 years of your particular brand of religious psychosis and bigotry?

Are you really suggesting that Palestinians must provide evidence of their genetic "purity" and continuity that predates the conception of the psychotic eugenic cult of zion? Should we pursue this line of thought to it's logical conclusion Jimbob? It reminds me of you know who...

C'mon Jimbob, you reckon you know it all but you're not giving anything away. Is it special, secret, sacred knowledge of the psychotic....?

***Wassup Jimbob? Your responses keep getting shorter and more evasive and distracted. And you won't answer any question I have posed for you. Why is that? Are you running out of steam champ? ***

Nope. Just busy. I’m one of those folks that has a job.

***“You're saying the Palestinians aren't Arabs?"
Where did I say that Jimbob?***

Quote: “I said that the people we now know as Palestinians were there long before your psychotic cult and still are. Try arguing against that FACT Einstein.”

Clue one for Clueless/nameless: The Palestinians are Arabs. Clue two: You don’t become an Arab by converting. It's one a them genetic type thingees. Clue three: the Canaanites weren’t Arabs.

Can Clueless/Nameless connect the dots? I wouldn’t count on it.

***Are you really suggesting that Palestinians must provide evidence of their genetic "purity" and continuity that predates the conception of the psychotic eugenic cult of zion?***

Naw, why should they have to do that? Oh, by the way, I'm heir to the Ming Dynasty. I'm not Chinese, but I'm pretty sure some of my ancestors were somehow living in China way back when. And you're a racist if you try to say different.

Have a good day!

Hey there Jimbo, I got a job too, it's just that I don't use it to justify flawed logic or as an excuse to avoid answering questions like you do.

Now you reckon that Palestinians are Arabs and, according to you, that automatically precludes a genetic link with a Canaanite heritage. So ah, where is the evidence to support that claim? Have you conducted your own research into the Arab and Canaanite genomes? With my limited knowledge of genetics I realise this would be rather unusual. The worlds geneticists will be rather "interested" in your ground breaking research and techniques.

As for your claim on the Ming dynasty it would have more credibility if you were Chinese and lived in China. That's why the claim by the Palestinians who have always have and still do live in Palestine has credibility over the psychotic eugenic cult of zions fantasies. Hang on, don't tell me, the cult has it's eyes on China too?

By the way Adolf, just to be clear, are we talking about Arab culture or Arab genetics?

...an anti-semite calling me Adolf. Sorry, putz, your nazi semantics don't work. Every word you write exposes you for what you are.

I've got a coupla questions for <i>you</i>. Let's see how good you are at answering them. Since you claim that Arabs have a tie to Israel that pre-dates that of the Jews...

1. How many times is Jerusalem mentioned in the Koran?

2. Which way do Arabs face when praying?

3. Which way do Jews face when praying?

4. Keeping in mind the recurrent attempts by Jews to reclaim "Palestine" over thousands of years, how many attempts were made by the descendants of your purported Arab originals to do the same?

Hmmm, Adolf?

This should be good.

An educated mind is a wonderful thing Jimbo. You should get one.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/72E2FDE3-CDF2-475A-B020-B282DE638811.htm

http://www.jerusalemiloveyou.net/article.php3?id_article=7

http://www.bible-history.com/maps/canaanite_nations.html

http://www.nisbett.com/people/bp-abraham.htm

You had your cluestick checked out yet Jimbo? It's a real lemon, I'd take it back to Yahweh and ask for a refund if I were you.

You can't show there were Arabs living in Israel, but you did manage to prove there were Canaanites! Which we already knew! Your task, if you can remember that far back, is to show that the Canaanites were Arabs, precursers to your "Palestinians".

Got it? Want a few minutes to think it over?

BTW, you forgot to tell me how many times Jerusalem appears in the Koran. Should I tell you? Oh, all right. ZERO!

Yep, those "Palestinians" shore loved their ancient homeland!

And for bonus points: which Arab leader said to the Peel Commission in 1937 the following:

"There is no such country! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."

Like I said, shooting fish in a barrel...

Any grownups here to argue with?

Dissecting the jello Jimbo uses for a brain...

*"You can't show there were Arabs living in Israel,"*

Hello! Lenny Bruce has another challenger. Good one funny man. I bet that brings the house down at the synagogue.

What this really shows is that Jimbo can't show that either Arabs or Canaanite descended Arabs weren't living in Palestine.

Are you saying no-one but Jews has lived in Palestine for the past 6000 years?

If you insist I'll believe you despite all the contrary physical evidence but billions won't Mr Irving.

*"Your task, if you can remember that far back, is to show that the Canaanites were Arabs, precursers to your "Palestinians". "*

No, I think the task was for you to prove (using the advanced genetic blue-printing techniques you have devised and pioneered) that Palestinian Arabs (or whatever clever nomenclature he wants to use for "those" people) are not descended from Canaanites and other pre-Jewish societies from Palestine.

C'mon Jimbo, I've given you plenty of opportunity on this one but you won't touch it with a bargepole. Are you protecting your new and highly secret genetic technology and knowledge?

"BTW, you forgot to tell me how many times Jerusalem appears in the Koran. Should I tell you? Oh, all right. ZERO!"

Well that's just faskkkinating but 'taint worth a hill of beans is it Jimbo? Personally, I'm not too fussed whether people use the bible, talmud or koran for toilet paper as long as they don't use them to justify wars, genocides or land thefts.

*"And for bonus points: which Arab leader said to the Peel Commission in 1937 the following:

"There is no such country! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria." "*

Word-games and semantics: the last desperate refuge of those in a hopeless situation.

Bad luck Jimbo, it's been fun playing with you but I'm sure the readers will agree when I say there's no point in trying to get sense out of jello.

spirals into the ground. KA-BOOM!

Your pathetic attempts at semantical tap-dancing don't stand up under even the most cursory examination. Just for fun, though, let's tip-toe through your "argument" (big grin). I'll try not to laugh, we don't want to hurt your feelings. Adolescence is a tough time, and I can sympathize with all you're going through on that score.

"What this really shows is that Jimbo can't show that either Arabs or Canaanite descended Arabs weren't living in Palestine. "

You insist that Palestinians are descended from the Canaanites and/or Philistines, and when confronted with the inconvenient fact that they couldn't be, since they are Arabs and the Canaanites/Philistines weren't, you respond by challenging me to prove the existence of their absence.

Tee-hee!

"Are you saying no-one but Jews has lived in Palestine for the past 6000 years?"

Now, a tiny glow in the dim bulb arises. N/C realizes his argument is fatally flawed, and this is his weak effort to shift the goalposts. Now I'm supposed to have said no one but Jews have lived in the area for 6000 years.

Silly, silly boy.!

*"Your task, if you can remember that far back, is to show that the Canaanites were Arabs, precursers to your "Palestinians". "*

"No, I think the task was for you to prove (using the advanced genetic blue-printing techniques you have devised and pioneered) that Palestinian Arabs (or whatever clever nomenclature he wants to use for "those" people) are not descended from Canaanites and other pre-Jewish societies from Palestine. "

Have you offered any proof that they are? Nope! Have I offered any proof that they aren't? Yep.

Ha ha!

"BTW, you forgot to tell me how many times Jerusalem appears in the Koran. Should I tell you? Oh, all right. ZERO!"

"Well that's just faskkkinating but 'taint worth a hill of beans is it Jimbo? Personally, I'm not too fussed whether people use the bible, talmud or koran for toilet paper as long as they don't use them to justify wars, genocides or land thefts."

Good one, Sparky! It's of no import that these Arabs, who you say pre-dated the Jews in "Palestine", and have lived their continuously ever since, have no mention of the Holiest and city in the area in their ancient writings.

*"And for bonus points: which Arab leader said to the Peel Commission in 1937 the following:

*"There is no such country! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria." *

"Word-games and semantics: the last desperate refuge of those in a hopeless situation. "

Sparky thinks it's semantics when Arab leaders say "There is no such country". (You should know this was before Arabs decided to pretend they belonged to a native group to be known as "Palestinians" so they could demand return of their "homeland".)

"Bad luck Jimbo, it's been fun playing with you but I'm sure the readers will agree when I say there's no point in trying to get sense out of jello. "

Boy, if I were you I'd turn tail and duck for cover, too. Try again when you're a little more mature, though. And hey, try some of that Clearasil, junior. I hear it's pretty good for acne.

Frothing at the mouth he declares...

**"The PHILISTINES weren't even ARABS! Neither were the CAANANITES! Arabs didn't come into the region until Mohammed the Pedophile's time a few thousand years later."**

I responded...

<<< Oh they weren't?

What were they then?

What happened when Abraham led the Jews into "Israel" (Palestine), did the natives just run away or did you wipe them out?

Have you developed a genetic racial profile to detect non-Jews Adolf Jim? >>>

Jimbo still hasn't answered these questions, his only response so far has been some puerile ad-hominem nonsense. Still, even that provides us with information.

Here's some other stuff Jimbo found easier to ignore than address...

<<< The archeological record in Palestine stretches back many thousands of years. Numerous societies certainly existed there well before the inception of the psychotic eugenic cult of zion.

So, aside from the fairy tales from the Judeo-Christian biblical tomes, what evidence can you provide that the people living in Palestine when the psychotic eugenic cult of zions genocidal invasion began last century were not the same people who have been there for those many thousands of years?

Sure empires, laws, customs and even religious psychoses change over time but so what? Are they not the same people? Does it lessen them in any way? Must we all subscribe to the time warp/hallucination induced by 2000 years of your particular brand of religious psychosis and bigotry?

Are you really suggesting that Palestinians must provide evidence of their genetic "purity" and continuity that predates the conception of the psychotic eugenic cult of zion? Should we pursue this line of thought to it's logical conclusion Jimbob? It reminds me of you know who... >>>

and now this

**"You insist that Palestinians are descended from the Canaanites and/or Philistines, and when confronted with the inconvenient fact that they couldn't be,"**

Here we are again Jimbo, where is your evidence for this twisted lie? How many times will I have to ask you?

Where and what is your proof that todays Palestinians are not direct descendants of original inhabitants?

IF you can show they are not, what happened to the original inhabitants?

Show me the money Jimbo. Two-bit tricks and dimes don't cut it.

Please add sources and references like grown ups use little Jimbo. None of that Sesame Street shit you've been trying on so far.

Can you answer simple questions Jimbo or will you resort, yet again, to evasion and diversion as per usual?

to type on his new Matel Internet Appliance!

Good for you, Sparkita!

Let's see your evidence that the Canaanites were Arabs.

Maybe you could explain why the palestinians never saw themselves as a distinct people until after 1948?

You hilariously criticize me for not disproving your spurious claims. It's like if I were to say there were palestinians on the moon and demand that you disprove it.

"There's no evidence there were ever palestinians on the moon!" you might say.

"There's no evidence they weren't!" I'd say back. If I were you. And had so little self-respect as to argue this way.

Tell me again why this group of Canaanite descendents, thrown off their ancient homeland by the brutal Israelites, never once over thousands of years claimed the land was theirs or tried to reclaim it?

That's right...you can't.

Bad luck Jimbo. You've proved my point. I provided extensive references to support my case while you have provided what in response?

More childish abuse and evasive nonsense.

Not even one reference let alone a credible reference. You are all Sesame Street kid. Have another go after you get yourself an education.

But it's about what I expected. Your "extensive" sources are a joke. All you do is prove there were Canaanites in Canaan, and Philistines in Palestine!

Not one shred of evidence exists connecting Arabs to ancient Israel. (On the other hand, there's all kinds of evidence about Jews.)

Arabs came from Arabia, Sparky. That's why they're called Arabs! There's no mention of the holiest city in ancient Israel in the Koran or the Suras. There's no evidence of your mythical ancient "Palestinians" ever trying to reclaim their supposed homeland.

No Arabs ever identified themselves as "Palestinians" until they'd been rounded up in camps and refused assimilation by their Arab brothers.

That's okay, though. Anti-semites need their little talking points. They have to ignore all the archeological and written history of the area. They have to defend a society that preaches misogynist, anti-intellectual, anti-gay, anti-individual-right tenets.

Sure! Let's have another totalitarian state in the ME! There aren't enough of them now.

You got your ass kicked, Sparkita, but I don't expect you to be honorable enough to admit it.

Ever heard of Occam's razor?

5000 BC l "At that time, Palestine may have developed more rapidly than any other area in western Asia."
- Encyclopedia Britannica

Come on Jimbo! Lift your game. You're getting hammered here. The Chosen People are being exposed as a racist eugenic cult. I have met and rebuffed every challenge you have made but you are yet to score a point on me.

=============

While there are various older or different definitions of "Palestinian" (discussed in Definitions of Palestine), the overwhelming majority of uses of "Palestinian" today are in reference to the people, mainly Arabs, whose ancestors had inhabited British Mandate Palestine during the centuries immediately before 1918, and who are the main topic of this article.

The Palestinians are a group of mainly Arabic speakers who regard themselves as a distinct branch of the Arabic-speaking peoples, with family origin in the region called Palestine being the defining characteristic. As such, the designation is independent of nationality and religion. While most Palestinians define themselves as Arabs, some Palestinian intellectuals prefer to emphasize their continuity with the previous population of the area, and see themselves as Canaanite rather than Arab (cf. Abu-Sahlieh). The great majority of Palestinians are the descendants of Arabic speakers resident in Palestine during the period before the creation of Israel, although the term can include certain non-Arab groups. They include most of the Arab minority in Israel. Another distinguishing characteristic of the Palestinians is their dialect; rural Palestinians, almost uniquely among Arabic speakers, pronounce the letter qaaf as k (Arabic kaaf), although Bedouin and most urban families do not.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Palestinian

“But all these [different peoples who had come to Canaan] were additions, sprigs grafted onto the parent tree...And that parent tree was Canaanite...[The Arab invaders of the 7th century A.D.] made Moslem converts of the natives, settled down as residents, and intermarried with them, with the result that all are now so completely Arabized that we cannot tell where the Canaanites leave off and the Arabs begin.”

Illene Beatty, “Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.”

the Arabs didn't show up until "the 7th century A.D." Thanks for proving my point. “But all these [different peoples who had come to Canaan] were additions, sprigs grafted onto the parent tree...And that parent tree was Canaanite...[The Arab invaders of the 7th century A.D.] made Moslem converts of the natives, settled down as residents, and intermarried with them, with the result that all are now so completely Arabized that we cannot tell where the Canaanites leave off and the Arabs begin.” Illene Beatty, “Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.

quote as many half-assed sources as you want. The fact is - as every reputable archeologist/anthropologist knows - the Canaanites were a Bronze Age society that had been assimilated with the Jews for 1600 years by the time the Arabs showed up in the 7th century.

Your laughable contention is that the Canaanites maintained a distinct culture, never managing to assimilate with the Jews over 2 or 3 millenia, apparently because they were waiting for the Arabs to come along on their camels.

What a joke.

Where did these distinct Canaanites live, anyway? Undergound? There's no record of their existence for a LONG time before the Arabs came along.

Hey, to diverge a bit, did you ever read Innocents Abroad, fellow named Mark Twain wrote it. It shows just how empty the land of "Palestine" was a few years before the European Jews began buying land and moving to Palestine to rejoin their people.

Nice of the Jews to make the desert bloom and provide jobs for so many Arabs. Really nice how grateful the Arabs were about it.

"with the result that all are now so completely Arabized that we cannot tell where the Canaanites leave off and the Arabs begin.”

So Jimbo, what part of this don't you understand? It is completely consistent with the position I have maintained I.E. there is an unbroken line of occupation from the first inhabitants of Palestine to the present day Palestinians. That is something the Jews cannot claim. They came late and left early thereby negating any claim on any part of Palestine. Israel is a racist fiction perpetrated by one of the ugliest strains of racism to ever stain the earth. Zionism is up there with Hitlers Nazism Jimbo.

In relation to Occams Razor, the Palestinian position would hold true. As I wrote earlier, why don't you tell us what happened to the first occupants of Palestine? Your far-fetched and convoluted story telling is being exposed for what it really is - dirty stinking racist propaganda.

So, once more Jimbo, what are the sources for your racist fairytale?

======================

The Jewish kingdoms were only one of many periods in ancient Palestine

"The extended kingdoms of David and Solomon, on which the Zionists base their territorial demands, endured for only about 73 years...Then it fell apart...[Even] if we allow independence to the entire life of the ancient Jewish kingdoms, from David's conquest of Canaan in 1000 B.C. to the wiping out of Judah in 586 B.C., we arrive at [only] a 414 year Jewish rule." Illene Beatty, "Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan."

========================

More on Canaanite civilization

"Recent archeological digs have provided evidence that Jerusalem was a big and fortified city already in 1800 BCE...Findings show that the sophisticated water system heretofor attributed to the conquering Israelites pre-dated them by eight centuries and was even more sophisticated than imagined...Dr. Ronny Reich, who directed the excavation along with Eli Shuikrun, said the entire system was built as a single complex by Canaanites in the Middle Bronze Period, around 1800 BCE." The Jewish Bulletin, July 31st, 1998.

===================================

Before the Hebrews first migrated there around 1800 B.C., the land of Canaan was occupied by Canaanites.

"Between 3000 and 1100 B.C., Canaanite civilization covered what is today Israel, the West Bank, Lebanon and much of Syria and Jordan...Those who remained in the Jerusalem hills after the Romans expelled the Jews [in the second century A.D.] were a potpourri: farmers and vineyard growers, pagans and converts to Christianity, descendants of the Arabs, Persians, Samaritans, Greeks and old Canaanite tribes." Marcia Kunstel and Joseph Albright, "Their Promised Land."

=============================

and...and...and...and then they all ran away or suicided to make way for the Chosen People hey Jimbo?

=========================

http://www.zi-activism.net/downloads/7_Myths_Zionism.pdf

=======================

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs, We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we came here and stole their country. Why should they accept that?" David Ben-Gurion, quoted in "The Jewish Paradox" by Nathan Goldman, former president of the World Jewish Congress.

=======================

Jimbo?

***"quote as many half-assed sources as you want. The fact is - as every reputable archeologist/anthropologist knows - the Canaanites were a Bronze Age society that had been assimilated with the Jews for 1600 years by the time the Arabs showed up in the 7th century."***

OK Ace, why don't you quote me a source on that? By the way, Jews don't intermarry with gentiles. Did you forget? How convenient! (I'll come back to this one later to kick your ass some more)

***"Your laughable contention is that the Canaanites maintained a distinct culture, never managing to assimilate with the Jews over 2 or 3 millenia, apparently because they were waiting for the Arabs to come along on their camels."***

Hey the racist bigot tries a joke - but fails. My contention is that Caananite people merged with various other peoples and cultures (not Jews obviously) to become modern day Palestinians.

***"Where did these distinct Canaanites live, anyway? Undergound? There's no record of their existence for a LONG time before the Arabs came along."***

Why they lived in the cities that had existed for thousands of years before the Jewish culture did. Many of the same cities and their Canaanite descendants (Palestinians) are still there.

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
- Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4th 1969

"Hey, to diverge a bit, did you ever read Innocents Abroad, fellow named Mark Twain wrote it. It shows just how empty the land of "Palestine" was a few years before the European Jews began buying land and moving to Palestine to rejoin their people. "

The old "empty land" argument. The Jewish version of Terra Nullius.

"...All these people believed themselves to belong in a land called Palestine, despite their feelings that they were also members of a large Arab nation...Despite the steady arrival in Palestine of Jewish colonists after 1882, it is important to realize that not until the few weeks immediately preceding the establishment of Israel in the spring of 1948 was there ever anything other than a huge Arab majority. For example, the Jewish population in 1931 was 174,606 against a total of 1,033,314.” Edward Said, “The Question of Palestine.”

***"Nice of the Jews to make the desert bloom and provide jobs for so many Arabs. Really nice how grateful the Arabs were about it.***"

Another Zionist Myth

http://www.iap.org/bloommyth.htm

it's dealt with here too

http://www.zi-activism.net/downloads/7_Myths_Zionism.pdf

I'm gonna kick your ass day and night Jimbo.

According to Jimbo

***"the Canaanites were a Bronze Age society that had been assimilated with the Jews for 1600 years"***

he doesn't provide a reference for this lie because, well, it's a lie and they can be danged hard to reference.

But I did a little research for Jimbo who seems to be "hard of learnin' and sources" and found "The Bigots Guide to Assimilation".

Enjoy Jimbo!

========================

When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations -- the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you -- 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. (Deut 7.1-5)
However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy them -- the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites -- as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God. (Deut 20.16ff)

These are the kings of the land that Joshua and the Israelites conquered on the west side of the Jordan, from Baal Gad in the Valley of Lebanon to Mount Halak, which rises toward Seir (their lands Joshua gave as an inheritance to the tribes of Israel according to their tribal divisions -- 8 the hill country, the western foothills, the Arabah, the mountain slopes, the desert and the Negev -- the lands of the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites):

9 the king of Jericho one the king of Ai (near Bethel) one
10 the king of Jerusalem one the king of Hebron one
11 the king of Jarmuth one the king of Lachish one
12 the king of Eglon one the king of Gezer one
13 the king of Debir one the king of Geder one
14 the king of Hormah one the king of Arad one
15 the king of Libnah one the king of Adullam one
16 the king of Makkedah one the king of Bethel one
17 the king of Tappuah one the king of Hepher one
18 the king of Aphek one the king of Lasharon one
19 the king of Madon one the king of Hazor one
20 the king of Shimron Meron one the king of Acshaph one
21 the king of Taanach one the king of Megiddo one
22 the king of Kedesh one the king of Jokneam in Carmel one
23 the king of Dor (in Naphoth Dor) one the king of Goyim in Gilgal one
24 the king of Tirzah one thirty-one kings in all. (Joshua 12.7-24)

====================

In Numbers 12:1, Moses is recorded as having married a non-Israelite woman who presumably followed a different religion. Aaron and Miriam criticized Moses because of this. God supported Moses' decision. He punished Miriam by making her leprous.

======================

Exodus 34:12-16: "Take care not to make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it will become a snare among you. You shall tear down their altars, break their pillars, and cut down their sacred poles...You shall not make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land...And you will take wives from among their daughters for your sons, and their daughters who prostitute themselves to their gods will make your sons also prostitute themselves to their gods."

==========================

Ezra 10:2-3: "Shecaniah...addressed Ezra, saying, 'We have broken faith with our God and have married foreign women from the peoples of the land, but even now there is hope for Israel in spite of this. So now let us make a covenant with our God to send away all these wives and their children, according to the counsel of my lord and of those who tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law. They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes; And that we would not give our daughters unto the people of the land, nor take their daughters for our sons."

=================

Nehemiah 13:25-27: "And I contended with them and cursed them and beat some of them and pulled out their hair; and I made them take an oath in the name of God, saying, 'You shall not give your daughters to their sons, or take their daughters for your sons or for yourselves. Did not King Solomon of Israel sin on account of such women? Among the many nations there was no king like him, and he was beloved by his God, and God made him king over all Israel; nevertheless, foreign women made even him to sin. Shall we then listen to you and do all this great evil and act treacherously against our God by marrying foreign women?' "

========================

How's that cluestick of yours going Jimbo?

...to be so full of hatred.

Just one last post, then I'll leave Sparky to his masturbatory game of verbal twister.

1. There were no Arabs in the Holy Land until 700 A.D. or so. THis isn't in dispute, right Sparkita?

2. There'd been no distinct Canaanite civilization in the Holy Land for millenian by the time the Arabs showed up.

3. Therefore, it's impossible for the Arabs to have somehow inherited the Canaanites' right to the Holy Land, as Sparkalita claims.

4. Now, if Sparkeeta wishes to say that Arab Subjugation of Jews effects this inheritance -- because the Jews assimilated the Canaanites, as any scholar could tell you (except the anti-semite scholars Sparkeatit loves to quote) -- then he runs into the little problem of a still-surviving Jewish community that wasn't assimilated by the conquering Arabs.

5. Sorry little boy, you lose again. Put some ice on your bruises, you'll feel better in the morning. And try fighting with someone your own small size next time.

Ta-ta.

We have a saying here in Australia that pretty much describes you Jimbo, it's "He's talking through his arse".

The show's over. You got nailed. Take it like a man.

Unless, of course, you finally have some sources and references for your 'cock and bull' take on history?

Nah? So shock me already! Really there's no point in me trying to have a serious debate with a blithering idiot.

As Darryl would say "Tell him he's dreaming".

There's really no difference anymore between the IMC's and any garden variety skinhead site.

Ironic how Leftists and skinheads and KKK'ers aren't a shilling's worth of difference.

then what was the question Shaaron?

Was it "Why is everyone always picking on the poor widdle Jews?" ? Something to do with genocide and land theft perhaps? For some reason you don't like it when the boot is on the other foot.

While I'm disgusted at the treatment of Muslim's in the world today, citing a book by the "editors of the Executive Intelligence Review" is a really big mistake. The EIR is the most regular "leaving" of Mr. Lyndon LaRouche and his followers (in Australia, the Citizens Electoral Council). LaRouche is one of the world's arch-nutters and a Jew-hating loon. One of his more bizarre beliefs is that the Queen is the world's biggest drug baron.

Here is a site with about 35 articles about LaRouche, the EIR and the CEC:

http://www.rickross.com/groups/larouche.html

This is Lyndon LaRouche's website:

http://www.larouchepub.com/

The article below is at the following link:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/larouche/larouche34.html

Who is Lyndon LaRouche?

Supporters claim the presidential candidate is America's only hope, but critics decry him as fascist ideologue

Portland State University Vanguard/May 13, 2004
By Joe Ireland

In the race for the Democratic Party presidential nomination, there is one candidate that has been flying under the radar of most mainstream press, although supporters of Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr., who is making his fifth bid for the presidency, have made a strong presence around Portland State lately.

Supporters have been holding demonstrations almost daily around campus for the candidate, claiming that his unique political ideology will turn America around.

On the other hand, many dismiss LaRouche as nothing more than an eccentric conspiracy theororist, and some critics believe that he and his followers are in a political cult promoting fascist and anti-Semitic ideology.

With his far-reaching theories (he once claimed that the queen of England was a drug-pusher and the Beatles "were a product shaped according to British Psychological Warfare Division specifications") and doomsday predictions, Larouche has established himself as one of the most controversial figures in American politics.

"Larouche is the only (candidate) that is qualified to be our president right now," says Larouche supporter Peter Martinson. A former Astronomy major at the University of Washington in Seattle, 26-year-old Martinson dropped out of school to join the LaRouche movement full time.

"I'm not going to school with this educational system," said Martinson. However, he does intend to be part of LaRouche's plan to colonize mars after LaRouche comes in to power.

Martinson explained that the LaRouche doctrine, a piece of literature illustrating LaRouche's foreign policy and economic views, consists of three main objectives: first, to "get the troops out of combat in Iraq," second, to form a "new global monetary system," and lastly, to retain this doctrine's designated name.

Martinson explained that "it must be called the LaRouche doctrine or it won't work," because "if it isn't, people in Southwest Asia will not trust it."

Harley Schlanger, LaRouche's national spokesman made similar claims last Thursday at a public meeting, saying, "it is being discussed in Arab countries everywhere." Schlanger also warned of a likely economic collapse, claiming that "we are on the brink of the worst depression in world history."

LaRouche's ideology and history has provoked ample criticism over three decades. Matthew Lyons and Chip Berlet, co-authors of "Right-Wing Populism in America: Too Close for Comfort," have published a plethora of articles on LaRouche and his ideas.

"Since the early 1990s, the LaRouchites have promoted a kind of faked progressivism. They've opposed both Gulf Wars, attacked the death penalty, and defended social welfare programs and civil rights," Lyons said in an interview with the Vanguard. "But their underlying political philosophy is based on conspiracy theories, not a critique of systemic oppression,"

He went on to explain that "LaRouche is in a long tradition of right-wingers, such as Joe McCarthy and the John Birch Society, who saw a plot by globalists, Eastern elites, and international bankers to undermine a virtuous, self-contained American republic."

LaRouche supporter Wesley Irwin says of LaRouche's critics, "the people putting out these slanders haven't done the research."

LaRouche supporters are often characterized by a fanatical loyalty to the movement. A PSU student, who wished to remain anonymous, recalled a trip with the "LaRouchies" to Seattle, Washington. "They totally worship him," he said. "They're always like, 'LaRouche says this and LaRouche says that.'"

The student recalls that the LaRouche supporters don't get their news reports from regular sources, "they get their information from other places, what they call the 'real news.'" He also recalls extremely aggressive demonstrations: "they would yell at people on the street, waving their books and pamphlets around saying, 'read this - if you don't you're a fascist.'"

"They're extremely patriarchal," said the student, "and they seriously target minorities and women."

LaRouche supporters also told our source that the world needs a new renaissance and that the earth's population will drop to 1 billion in the near future.

LaRouche was convicted of mail fraud in 1989, resulting in 15-year prison sentence of which he served 5 years. To this day, LaRouche and his followers insist that he was framed by prominent world bankers who, they claim, also attempted to murder him on Oct. 6, 1986 at his home in Leesburg, Virginia.

LaRouche says he believes that we are on the brink of a terrible financial crisis of holocaustic proportions. At Thursday's public meeting, Schlanger claimed that LaRouche told him, "my chances of winning (this election) are better than the chances of humanity surviving if I don't win."

"LaRouchite economics is based on a phony dichotomy between "productive" industrial capital and "parasitic" finance capital. This lets them sound radical but defend capitalism at the same time. In reality, bankers are no more and no less parasitic than other capitalists," said Lyons.

He believes that LaRouche's ideas are rooted in fascist ideology, "Scapegoating bankers is a classic fascist ploy and is closely linked to anti-Semitism, through the myth that Jews control the banking industry. The LaRouchites deny that they're anti-Jewish but constantly invoke coded anti-Semitic themes."

LaRouche ran for president five times between 1976 and 1992, he is currently on the Oregon Democratic Presidential ballot for the May 18 primary.

Campaign cash

Here is a breakdown of Lyndon LaRouche's campaign financing for the 2004 presidential race, as of March 31.

Total Receipts:
$8,723,170

Individual Contributions:
$7,334,282

Total Spent:
$8,578,977

Cash on hand:
$197,685

Debts:
$2,653,280

Statistics courtesy of The Center for Responsive Politics, a non-partisan, non-profit research group based in Washington, D.C.

LaRouche on LaRouche

This policy statement originally appeared in the Oregon Voter's Guide for the May 18, 2004 election. LaRouche is running for Presidential candidate of the Democratic party.

"Many voters choose their candidates the way they choose to cheer for a sports figure in the arena. Soon, that will change. We are on the edge of a collapse of present world monetary financial system, a collapse more dangerous than what President Franklin Roosevelt faced in March 1933, whether President Bush is willing to face that reality, or not. You, the voter, personally, are in the arena.

In the meantime, Senator John Kerry and I will soon be the only major Democratic candidates left standing. It is important that he and I face off in constructive debates on the policies which the next President will be facing this coming January. It will be a friendly debate, but a very serious one. The economic policy you choose will be crucial.

Although the present world economic crisis is worse than in 1933, the philosophy of President Franklin Roosevelt is a model for the only sane alternative available to the U.S. now. My policies are detailed, and on my campaign Web site: http://www.larouchein2004.com. You are in the arena of a world economic crisis. Don't be a sidewalk superintendent. Act in this election as if your personal future depended upon it. It does."

Lyndon LaRouche, a timeline:

1976: Lyndon LaRouche makes first bid for U.S. presidency under the U.S. Labor Party

1982-83: LaRouche engages in exploratory talks with the Soviet Union which lead to the development of President Ronald Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative

1984: LaRouche founds the Schiller Institute, a non-profit formed to "defend the rights of all humanity to progress --material, moral and intellectual"

1986: LaRouche followers draft California ballot initiative calling for the isolation or quarantining of people infected with AIDS

1987: Roy Frankhouser, former Klu Klux Klan grand dragon and LaRouche advisor, convicted of obstruction of justice.

1988: LaRouche and six associates convicted on federal conspiracy charges. LaRouche spends five years in prison.

2004: LaRouche makes his fifth bid for the U.S. presidency, this time running a candidate under the Democratic Party.

PCC Courier Online/November 15, 2001
By Matthew Robinson

Each semester, hundreds of students pass by a table set up in front of the D building in the quad, where supporters of Lyndon LaRouche try to interest students in their political agenda. For those who stop and agree to go to an off- campus meeting, they often find themselves entangled in a worldwide cult.

Philip Mullendore, chief of campus police, reported that they get complaints on regular basis from students about La Rouche recruits harassing them in the quad. Others complain of repeated phone calls, urging them to attend a meeting. Many students who attend those meetings end up dropping out of school and devoting their lives to LaRouche.

"We have documented several incidents of aggressive tactics by this group and we monitor them very closely," said Mullendore.

The mother of an 18-year-old student who was lured into the cult complained to campus police that the LaRouche group had taken over her son's life.

The LaRouche organization, which has thousands of members worldwide, are constantly recruiting young people to spread the groups philosophy and to raise money for the cause.

The group targets maladjusted, unhappy and confused young people who feel they don't belong. The organizers become their "friends" and give them a cause. They also give them meetings to attend so they feel a part of a group.

One PCC student, who recently broke the group's hold on his life, told the Courier in an exclusive interview about his experiences in the LaRouche organization from his recruitment on campus to his recent escape. The student, who will be referred to as Tom in the story, did not want his real name used. He said it's hard enough trying to "reclaim your life and friends" without everyone knowing you are a former cult member.

"I was going to PCC, and I was at the end of my second semester. In September of last year, I came across the LaRouche table in the quad. "Take a minute come over here." said an organizer as I passed his table. At first they say things that get you really excited about what they are talking about. They look for people like me who are pissed off and want to do something. They want people who are opinionated and who are looking for a place to fit in," said Tom, the 18-year-old who spent a year in the organization.

When I approached the table in quad, the woman I met said she had been recruiting for seven years. She started out by saying

"School is a bunch of bullshit and you should join the movement fulltime." While not all recruits say things like that, it is encouraged in order to make a connection with the young people.

"The thing that grabbed me was that she said, "School is a bunch of bullshit." He said I thought it was real interesting that there was a group of people at PCC at a political table telling students that school is bullshit," Tom said when he stopped to talk politics, he was looking for something other than the mainstream political thinkers. They got me to sign up for their paper, and I gave them some money. Then they said to come to a meeting, and I took a bunch of literature home." From what he read, he said it appeared that this group might just have the answers to all the worlds problems. "Then the phone calls started coming," he said.

"That's what they do. They call you every night, sometimes two times a night. If the people they are trying to recruit are being difficult, they harass them even more."

Tom said, it was not hard to get him to a meeting. He went and immediately started arguing with everything the members were saying. "Little did I know, that the more I argued the more they were brainwashing me," Tom said. He said the meetings seemed harmless. They were broken up into two parts. The first part was a political update, and the second part was a class where new recruits might hear about a health issue or be given a history lesson on the revolutionary war. However at the end of the class, they tie it all in to the current situation, and then to LaRouche politics."

One of the reasons there is so much recruitment now, is that the last time the organization recruited heavily was between 1967 through 1974, so most of the core members of the organization are in their 50s ."They need to recruit the next generation," said Tom.

Once you start listening, you'll hear over and over that LaRouche is the solution to every problem in the world. They'll ask, "Do you want children in Africa to starve?" Of course you don't, so they convince you that you have to come to a meeting. They repeatedly tell you if you don't come to the meeting, you must want the world to starve. So you go to the meeting," he said.

One of the hallmarks of the LaRouche organization is to turn you against your family, Tom said. They tell you that "family values are really immoral, they are only in place to keep you from getting political. They say that the baby-boomers are evil and are corrupted by the British neo-liberal banking establishment, but it's not their fault.

"The more you are around these people, the more they turn you against your parents and your friends. "They want you to try and recruit your friends. "What they tell you if your friends resist is they are" blocked," and you should just leave them behind. They are not worth it. They ask what's more important, your friends or the world?" Soon you see yourself as someone who can actually change the world and you really do see your friends and family as obstacles.

Tom moved out of his parent's house and moved to Glendale. The organization paid his rent, phone bill, and all his utilities. He also got $50 a week for food.

Once you alienate your family and let the group support you, you've got nowhere else to go, Tom said.

By this time Tom was really involved. It was his turn to bring in others.

"Another big thing I know happens on the PCC campus, is to get a student off the campus and to a meeting. Then the next day they have them working at a LaRouche table. It helps reinforce the beliefs, and gets the new recruit to more meetings." These meetings are the most important things in the world to the group. They say there is nothing better you can do with your time because that is where they manipulate you and teach you to manipulate others, he said.

Some of the people, who were recruited on campus, are now at the book table. The idea is that once you are in a position where you have to convince someone that LaRouche is the answer, in the process you convince yourself more and more." Tom said, they teach people to twist things in such a way that it makes them feel stupid for asking the question.

"I resisted working on campus for a long time. I did not want to go work a book table, but they finally got me out there. Soon as they got me out there, I was in!"

"My recruitment took about four months. "Although some people dropped out of school right away and joined in a matter of weeks."

Many students who become part of the organization never break away. "It is next to impossible to get out once they have you, Tom said. "They actually brainwash you."

"I cannot pinpoint when I was brainwashed, it just happened overtime. When you are there, you love it. It's like being high. You get an intellectual euphoria, because you feel in a position of ultimate power. You can prove anyone wrong on anything because you are equipped with these amazing manipulation techniques. You feel like you have the weight of the world on your shoulders and that you alone are saving it.

Everyday they reinforce what you are doing by always telling you that you are the best and you're doing a great job. You get the respect of people many times older than you. It's a high that blinds you to reality. What they do is feed your ego so much, you can't see anything else. It's comfortable; it's like a womb."

The organization has attracted the attention of the FBI, CIA and other government agencies. Because of the claims that members are brainwashed and forced to work for the group, the LaRouche organization is closely monitored.

"It is frightening the network they have as far as intelligence contacts. Contacts within governments, contacts within different news sources. Even people who oppose LaRouche say he has one of the best private intelligence agencies around, said Tom

He emphasized that LaRouche is not particularly dangerous on a worldwide level, "but on a personal level, such as manipulating your thoughts and your psyche, he is lethal,"

The student explained that "on any given week coming to PCC we could get three or four students to a meeting, and maybe one every two weeks would come and work a table with us."

"We have 20 youth organizers, and three or four came from PCC. That's a pretty big percentage considering they organize on 20-30 college campuses."

He said any student who goes to the table, shows any kind of interest, and gives them a phone number is guaranteed to get a lot of phone calls."

PCC is one of the prime locations to recruit along with Cal State Northridge and LACC.

Tom explained what finally got him to realize he was in a cult.

One day right after Sept.11, "I had a confrontation with a WWII veteran, and that conversation just about killed me. I put up a sign that said, "War doesn't make peace." He came up to me and said, "If you were a veteran, you would not put that sign up. Then he started to talk to me, and I just realized that I am fucking brainwashed and totally in a cult." It was at that point he started to think about how he was now thinking about the world. Leaders of the group told them not to watch TV news, particularly CNN. They said the WTC attacks "were just the governments way of taking the people's mind off the economy."

"On the following Sunday I did exactly what the organization told me what not to do. I watched CNN."

I realized then that I was not looking at this the right way at all. The organization was trying to take the deaths of 6000 people to boost LaRouche higher up on his pedestal and get more money."

"That night I called my parents and told them I wanted them to show up at my apartment with a moving van.

" I had to be gone before they knew I was going He said the big challenge in leaving is getting back your identity and coming in contact with all the friends you haven't called in months because you were told they were fascists." Tom is also receiving psychotherapy from a cult exit counselor.

"LaRouche is a big time cult, and it's really upsetting that a cult is legally able to recruit on a college campus as a non-profit political organization."

Tom warns everyone, not to try to challenge the group to prove they are wrong or that they are in a cult. Recruiters welcome these challenges and can turn these people around faster than anyone."

If you want to understand LaRouche, or how any cult works, read George Orwell's 1984. It's terrifying how much that book is LaRouche. Of course, the organization discourages members from reading the book."

"If you want to find out about LaRouche, do not talk to the people inside the organization. The ones you need to talk to are the people who have experienced LaRouche and have dealt with his organization before. People who have studied the organization for an extended period of time are the ones who can give current information. For example, if you want to find out about a movie, you don't ask the people who made the movie what they think about it.

Tom says his mission now is to educate students about the evils of the LaRouche group and the dangers of approaching a table. "I'm trying to redeem myself for recruiting students and ripping off little old ladies while I was with LaRouche," said Tom. Some older people donate their entire Social Security check to the cause hoping to make a difference in the world. "If I can get the word out and stop people from heading over to the tables then I've done my job. If I can save one student, then I've succeeded in my atonement."

>fuck the Jews
>by nessie

I didn’t write that. I didn’t post it. It’s a forgery.

For more about forgeries on Indymedia, click here:

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

How to tell if my name has been forged:

http://pittsburgh.indymedia.org/news/2004/05/14010_comment.php#14545

What else do you suppose they have been lying to you about?

Hmmm. So "nessie" takes an article about the appalling treatment of Muslims, and cunningly titles it "fuck the Jews", thus helping maintain the pathetic "Jew Vs Muslim" mindset.. Then shanelyons comes along - sees one reference to a book - and resorts to numerous logical fallacies, thus completely failing to confront "nessie's" fraudulence.

The projected attitude of someone who says "fuck the Jews" is fairly obvious. Why then, does Shane feel the need to attack the source of a book which was only linked to, and not used as a source for the article?

I don't know a great deal about Larouche, except that so many people seem to lie about him that I can't take opinion based criticisms of him seriously.

"LaRouche is one of the world's arch-nutters...."

Appeal to ridicule. - http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html

"....and a Jew-hating loon."

Is he? I can't rule this possibility out, but I've seen no evidence of this. As I understand it, Larouche - quite correctly - focusses on the Anglo-American hierarchy, not Jews. Evidence please, Shane.

"One of his more bizarre beliefs is that the Queen is the world's biggest drug baron."

Oh.....What do you know about the House of Windsor and the global drug trade, Shane? While I wouldn't entirely agree with Larouche's assertion (assuming he actually did make it), it's not that far from the truth. Do some research.

Whether one chooses to agree with Larouche's opinions or all the conclusions of the EIR or not, I have yet to see any evidence that their factual research is flawed or fraudulent in any way.
Perhaps you have such evidence, Shane?
Perhaps you could also explain how quoting articles with little more than opinions for content, from a disinfo fraud (or at the very least very dubious) like Rick Ross, represents debunking?

"Nessie" is clearly acting as a divide and rule fool. There's a lot of this dynamic about - it's one of the oldest manipulator tactics in the book. While many "ordinary" Muslims and Jews have indeed allowed themselves to be hoodwinked into hating each other, those promoting such hatred are not so stupid.

Just one simple example: The ADL, Mossad and the Meyer Lansky crime syndicate have links going back decades. These 3 organisations just happen to be largely made up of Jews. Now, "we all know" that the Saudi royal family hate Israel and Jews, don't we?
I guess this explains why Alvin Malnik - the heir to the Lansky fortune - acted as financial advisor for members of the Saudi royal family. I guess it also explains why Malnik's son married Prince Turki's daughter.

Divide and Rule is strictly for fools.

Isn't it?

" "LaRouche is one of the world's arch-nutters...."

Appeal to ridicule. - http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html "

That should have been Ad Hominem - http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

The appeal to ridicule occurred regarding the Queen comments.

In the end though, I'm not really interested in defending Larouche. I do however get a bit peeved when people who at least look beyond the surface realities of politics - who will inevitably make mistakes, have their own biases/agendas, reach wrong conclusions, etc. - simply get rubbished by people who haven't looked at the evidence. The Larouches of this world will draw certain conclusions from certain facts they expose - there is no obligation for us to draw the same conclusions from those same facts.

No hard feelings, shanelyons.

Conspiracy theorists are often their own worst enemy. When one has been deeply immersed studying a particular political dynamic from a particular perspective, one will often take ownership of that dynamic. Then when someone else offers a different perspective, defenses are typically raised. This is a common occurence with conspiracy theorists, particularly paranoid ones. This is unfortunate, as CTs often uncover very interesting and useful factoids.

Also, while conspiricism often provides us with useful ways of looking at a bigger picture, it is not *the* bigger picture nor is it the way the picture is painted. Unfortunately, most CTs forget this and get hung up on their own version of the truth.

In the end, conspiricism alone can't resolve our problems for us. It's no great secret to increasing numbers of people, that the worlds political/economic/social/etc. institutions have been well and truly infiltrated by various criminal elements. While I personally take something of an interest in the details of this, I also realise and respect that not everyone else does. We can debate forever exactly who "they" are and what "they" are doing, but that alone will change nothing. This criminal element can be looked at as the school bully collecting lunch money at the school gate. By it's very existence, it challenges us to stand up to it. Whether we do so, or continue meekly handing over our source of energy for the day, is entirely up to us.

I know the first gut response will be to roll your eyes because of the mention of Free Republic, and the editors might want to delete this post. I ask you to at least *consider* what's below. If a Nazi group is looking for people sympathetic to them, why can't they look to liberal groups just the same? Read of their tactics, and imagine they're also here at an IMC. And ask yourself about Wendy Campbell. Who is she? When did she appear? What are her credentials?

Svyatoslav_Igorevich has taken a keen interest in inducing Stormfront members to register at Free Republic. Free Republic is approximately five times as large as Stormfront.

Over the past few years, Free Republic has gotten less and less interesting. However, many posters and readers at Free Republic are four square behind stopping the illegal invasion from Mexico. This is one topic on which you will be allowed to post at Free Republic.

Free Republic does not suffer criticism of Jewry, so- if you insist on trying to get that topic in, you'll be banned in short order. That is certain.

They will allow minority crime stories, but don't try and headline it "Negro Rapes and Kills White College Girl" etc., cause you'll be history.

I believe you have to be a member for a very brief while- a few days or a week, before you can start your own threads, but you can post from the start.

A few ideas I have on registration names: perhaps it would be wise to use names they can relate to easily...GOPin04, WtheBEST, ConservativeGirl (take up a girl's name as a handle- most politicos are men, and they'll appreciate it LOL), GodBlessUSA, SupportOurBoysInIraq etc. And don't use my examples, cause for certain, Jim Robinson and his mods will soon find out about and read this thread.

Remember. What we consider staid, they consider radical racist. If you find a good minority on White current crime tale- toss it right in there. Then, for good measure- just to show you're not racist (cause some of them will say- "You ONLY ever post black on White crime!")...well, post some White homo principal who's been playing with his students. A digital incursion onto Free Republic can be managed. We have the numbers, and the abilities. But a lot of us will get knocked out as surely as if we had been British redcoats charging in a line, if we don't be sensible and clever.

Remember these pointers before you click that mouse. And ask yourself: "Would Jim Robinson post this?"

If we meet with some successes, we can't come back to Stormfront and say- "I am posting over at Free Republic as "RightWingChick" and here's what I said...", cause their mods will be following our threads having to do with the incursion. We could post threads in which we've participated and let everyone at Free Republic and Stormfront guess, but we simply can't name our names and expect to go undetected. Jim Robinosn will even be looking for increases in registrations, and all those who have registered within 30 days or so of Svyatoslav_Igorevich's

Gee Nathan - did you read "A War for Israel" or are you trying to bury it in a discussion about someone we don't know from San Francisco?

Did Wendy Campbell write the Project for a New American Century?

Was Wendy Campbell arrested in explosives-tainted circumstances on 911 while celebrating the attacks?

Did Wendy Campbell crush Rachel Corrie with a bulldozer?

If the Palestinians really existed for so long, can anyone name a single Palestinian leader before Yasser Arafat?

Just one...

[crickets chirping]

Try reading the thread before opening your dumb big mouth you fucking moron.

Gee thanks for that.
What a wonderful point you make.
Were you in the high-school debating team? Your arguing skills amaze me. I mean the way you deconstructed my point, peppering your argument with facts and logic, well, it's just astounding!

I doff my tin-foil hat to you.

I wrote "Try reading the thread before opening your dumb big mouth you fucking moron."

What part of that don't you understand bimbo? Maybe if you had bothered to read the thread you wouldn't have have opened your big mouth and made a total fool of yourself.

If you choose to mimic the other moron what do you expect?

Are you going to provide the references that he couldn't big mouth?

It always amuses me when someone brings her name up in these circumstances.

It's easy to see why Jew haters exploit Corrie's death - a perfect, virginal Aryan princess slaughtered by the subhuman Zionazis. Great propaganda innit?

Get real, retard.

It is always amusing when anti-Semites exploit Corrie's death - why, she was a virginal Aryan princess slaughtered by sub-human Zionazis. What wonderful propaganda!

Of course, if one Jew is suspected of doing something bad, the rest of 'em are to blame.

Get real, retard.